Very Recent JFK Incident at T6 Parking Lot

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2012-11-15, 09:14 PM
Gerard

[QUOTE=NIKV69;477314] To be honest I really don't like to be tied into or with anything Phil or NYCAV does /QUOTE]

:tongue::eek: :confused::rolleyes:
2012-11-15, 09:41 PM
eric8669

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIKV69

I am not the one arguing Manny, just asking questions from Phil's meeting. I don't need to get on a podium I am not the de facto spokesperson here. Phil is. To be honest I really don't like to be tied into or with anything Phil or NYCAV does but since Phil is doing this and I am a NY spotter it effects me and I would like to know what is happening. If you want to rant and call me crazy send me a PM. Stop trolling.

who's stopping you from doing your own thing?
2012-11-15, 09:47 PM
gonzalu

Nick, me ranting? Trolling? You are the one that sounds like a troll. Everyone else said thank you, you go on and on pointing out issue after issue etc. If anyone is a troll, it is you...

and you're afraid of discussing this publicly? I am not into PMs, too conservative. I like my liberal-semi-conservative views way out in public :tongue:
2012-11-15, 09:52 PM
NIKV69

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric8669

who's stopping you from doing your own thing?

You will have to define that Eric. If you mean shooting and not being affiliated with this site is doing ones own thing that I guess I do that already. As I stated earlier I am a NY spotter. I don't consider myself part of Phil's site for the purposes he outlined in his speech. I merely post in the message forum. There is a difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzalu

you go on and on pointing out issue after issue etc

No, just one. The PA's attitude of rather discouraging us from shooting than tolerating. Stop clouding that with your rant. Again PM is your friend.
2012-11-15, 10:22 PM
yankees368

Look, the point is as simple as this. We already knew that there was no rule against spotting or even photography at PA property. The issue was that the PD made up their own rules, completely randomly and varying from office to officer, and usually enforced with extreme prejudice.
This will at least attempt to spread the word within the PAPD that spotting is just fine.
2012-11-16, 03:03 AM
PhilDernerJr

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIKV69

Nice speech Phil, as to exact rules I am little confused. Haven't we already established that? No checkpoints and people?

As far as I knew, no. My own understanding, as was explained to me by airport management for years and from PAPD is that photography was not allowed on airport ground, even though there was no official rule on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIKV69

Also in your private meeting did you broach the topic of the attitude that they would rather run us off and discourage that you mentioned earlier?

I mentioned it on the phone to the official I spoke with, and he was interested in hearing specifics of examples, which I intend to provide details of for all future encounters where that is the case.

My speech also specifically referenced the intimidationg with the intent of discouraging the spotter from continuing the hobby.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIKV69

I don't see why we need a piece of paper or quotes when the officer approaching us should be aware of the rule

That is just it. I do not think that the officers actually know...because it wasn't published anywhere. All they had to go by was misinformation on what airport managers said the rules were...which was wrong. I personally (my opinion) is that PAPD officer simply did not know the rules, and maybe airport management felt tehy had the freedom to make up their own rules since there was no clear guidance from their higher ups at PANYNJ HQ.

This was my whole point in asking for their actual stance on the hobby. With this clear rule and related memo, we will know that those officers and airport management have no room to tell us that photography is not allowed. It also gives us something tangible to show and stick up for ourselves with.

I could be wrong, but I don't think any of us felt we truly had the freedom or would feel comfortable going into any NYC terminals to spot. In the coming weeks, that will be a possibility again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIKV69

The underlying problem was a so called attitude Phil claimed in an email he supposedly saw.

Let me know if you don't actually believe anything I say, I don't want to waste your time or mine if anything I say is just bull in your mind.

As for the quote, though I didn't name the individual, I put the exact quote in the article that I wrote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIKV69

If real acceptance is accomplished this is unnecessary.

You're completely right. And this new step is a new chance for us to receive that acceptance, as we now have a tool in our belts specifically for it. Maybe the cops will press back...who knows? This isn't a final victory for on-airport spotting. We will need to see how it goes.

Ultimately, in the beginning of the thread, Nick, your concern was losing the one on-airport spotting location as a result of the article I wrote, and you wanted me to do more to build an even stronger relationship with Port to bridge that gap. Not only did my article help open a location in another city (San Antonio), but I did step it up even further as I planned and as you requested. So instead of losing a spot...we now stand to gain an infinite amount of spots, and finally have access to an airport that we didn't previously have access to (EWR).

And this isn't a victory yet, nor are this week's revelation's useful until we get that memo in-hand and go to the airports to test it all out. So you may be right...it's too early too tell.

Nick, as before, I am still open to suggestions if there is even more you think I can do that I haven't.
2012-11-16, 06:53 AM
NIKV69

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil D

As far as I knew, no. My own understanding, as was explained to me by airport management for years and from PAPD is that photography was not allowed on airport ground, even though there was no official rule on it.

http://www.panynj.gov/press-room/media-access.html

Click middle tab that says Videotaping/photography at PA facilities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil D

My speech also specifically referenced the intimidationg with the intent of discouraging the spotter from continuing the hobby.

I know I asked did you discuss this in your private meeting after your speech.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil D

This was my whole point in asking for their actual stance on the hobby. With this clear rule and related memo, we will know that those officers and airport management have no room to tell us that photography is not allowed. It also gives us something tangible to show and stick up for ourselves with.

See above link Phil. It is clear what their stance is. Your speech intro laid it out clearly that your site is tied to the media. You dropped CNN etc. So to them this is not a hobby and they will not differentiate. This is my concern that now all spotters will be painted with the same brush.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil D

Let me know if you don't actually believe anything I say, I don't want to waste your time or mine if anything I say is just bull in your mind.

As for the quote, though I didn't name the individual, I put the exact quote in the article that I wrote.

You misunderstood Phil, I believe you. I just asked if you touched on this in your meeting because it wasn't that the policy was not clear. (Above link) It was that PA would rather us not be there at all and that a relationship needed to be established.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil D

Ultimately, in the beginning of the thread, Nick, your concern was losing the one on-airport spotting location as a result of the article I wrote, and you wanted me to do more to build an even stronger relationship with Port to bridge that gap. Not only did my article help open a location in another city (San Antonio), but I did step it up even further as I planned and as you requested. So instead of losing a spot...we now stand to gain an infinite amount of spots, and finally have access to an airport that we didn't previously have access to (EWR).

EWR is a smoke screen. No matter what happens the better spots at EWR like Ikea will not change since that is Elizabeth PD land. I shoot at EWR with no issue by simply using my head. This discussion is about the garages and terminals at JFK. Let's stick to that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil D

And this isn't a victory yet, nor are this week's revelation's useful until we get that memo in-hand and go to the airports to test it all out. So you may be right...it's too early too tell.

Nick, as before, I am still open to suggestions if there is even more you think I can do that I haven't.

How does a spotter get this memo? What happens if a spotter doesn't visit this site? I would rather have to check in with ops or something so they know we are there and have a name. I think it would much more effective.
2012-11-16, 08:31 AM
Landing Lights

Phil, you are a tireless advocate for everyone in this often misunderstood hobby. I think it is obvious that almost everybody here appreciates the hard work that you are doing.
2012-11-16, 10:24 AM
wunaladreamin

Quote:

Originally Posted by mldoc

Phil, you are a tireless advocate for everyone in this often misunderstood hobby. I think it is obvious that almost everybody here appreciates the hard work that you are doing.

+1 on that Phil.
2012-11-16, 04:29 PM
gonzalu

Nick, you wanted me to PM you. Why didn;t you PM Phil? Just wondering that's all... LOL
2012-11-16, 04:35 PM
wunaladreamin

Someone craves attention Manny.
2012-11-16, 07:38 PM
Gerard

Coming close to moderators locking this down?
After all the crap we've all been through the last few weeks.....CANT WE ALL GET ALONG? :frown:
Geez!!
2012-11-16, 09:21 PM
wunaladreamin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerard

Coming close to moderators locking this down?
After all the crap we've all been through the last few weeks.....CANT WE ALL GET ALONG? :frown:
Geez!!

OH SHUT UP lol :tongue::tongue:
2012-11-16, 09:21 PM
Mateo

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIKV69

http://www.panynj.gov/press-room/media-access.html

Click middle tab that says Videotaping/photography at PA facilities.

This is for commercial and media filming only. Nowhere does that page even suggest that any of those guidelines are intended for non-commercial, private use.
2012-11-16, 10:19 PM
Vidiot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil D.

I had to speak fast and get a lot out there in only 3 minutes, and I made it just in time. The part that you didn't hear when I turned around was to the PAPD officers, who had just received heroism awards, saying "This is of course not to discredit the work of the Port Authority Police Department, who do a great job keeping our ports safe everyday..."

I was pleased with the info that I was able to pass along to them. Already, I've received word that a memo is being prepared to be given to all PAPD commanding officers to address the PANYNJ's true policy on photos during roll calls to all PAPD officers.

Spectacular job. Thanks for all you've done, and you're making a real, tangible difference. It's much appreciated.

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