Very Recent JFK Incident at T6 Parking Lot

What other spots on airport property are there? There's the one in question here.

Nick, I respect your opinion truly. It is a valid stance and a valid concern. I do have a relationship with various Port officials and I don't feel this will tarnish that, nor our chances in having a safe, useful and abuse-free environment for our hobby that actually contributes to airport safety.

I will keep everyone posted as I am able as things progress with my communication with them. Details to come shortly as I arrange.

There are some excellent arguments being made here. I have just a few observations that I have made as a relatively new member of the spotting community.

First, in a perfect world there should be no question as to whether or not spotting and photography is allowed if there is no rule specifically banning it. However the post-9/11 world is far from perfect and we are dealing with authorities and a general public who believe that the only people with a deep interest in airplanes are those bent on doing horrific things. The best thing that we can do about this is to go out and be seen! Wear a smile and act like you belong there (you do!). With time, people will become more accustomed to seeing us out there, and so will the authorities.

Second, as a newcomer I was always under the impression that spotting at NYC area airports was pretty much a strictly off-property proposition, and that at least photography on-property was frowned upon, though as the saying goes, "its only illegal if you get caught." Since there is no official rule and yet it is known to be frowned upon, I think that common sense would be that you don't advertise what you are doing for an extended period. Take your shot and then stash the camera. Don't make it obvious that you're camping out there. Now this has little bearing on what occurred to Bonanzabucks, but since photography has become a part of this conversation, it needs to be said. As for just spotting without a camera, I really don't think that you could possibly make a rule against it that would be enforceable.

Third, I think my biggest concern with a rule banning photography would be at EWR and especially SWF (I don't think many people are trying to spot at TEB) where there are very few places to spot from off-property. I have spotted at SWF a few times with a camera and have never had a problem, whereas it seems at EWR no matter where you go you will have a problem. However if there is a rule specifically prohibiting the practice, then things get more difficult. That being said, it is my opinion that clarity is always preferable over gray areas and having a rule for or against will serve to prevent encounters where misinformed individuals blow things out of proportion.

Hey all,

Today I had a nice phone discussion with a PANYNJ official who clearly stated that planespotting is legal and allowed on airport property! He assures me that there are NO rules against this, and he is very interested in hearing of cases where other Port officials, airport employees, or PAPD tell enthusiasts otherwise.

All they want is for no photography at or of security checkpoints, and to have no people in the photos (which would include ramp workers).

Don't use this post as a claim to show to cops at the airports tomorrow, but I will obtain something clear and official for everyone to see. I will be meeting with them later this week. Just wanted to give you a heads up as I promised.

Thanks for the update, Phil, and for all your work on this!

awesome Phil!

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Originally Posted by Phil D.

Hey all,

Today I had a nice phone discussion with a PANYNJ official who clearly stated that planespotting is legal and allowed on airport property! He assures me that there are NO rules against this, and he is very interested in hearing of cases where other Port officials, airport employees, or PAPD tell enthusiasts otherwise.

All they want is for no photography at or of security checkpoints, and to have no people in the photos (which would include ramp workers).

Don't use this post as a claim to show to cops at the airports tomorrow, but I will obtain something clear and official for everyone to see. I will be meeting with them later this week. Just wanted to give you a heads up as I promised.

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This is great Phil but we have known that photography is allowed as long as it's not of security checkpoints. Nothing new. The problem is PA officers behavior toward us and how it is handled like when they lie to us when they tell us what we do is illegal. Or when a bad seed is encountered like in Bonanza's encounter. I spoke to a friend of my father who was a PA officer who just retired. His opinion is some sort of system is needed where any spotter should touch base with PA ops before they spot so shift officers are aware, etc. Then maybe when the calls come in they can handled better and a officer just doesn't try to run us off.

Like you alluded to before, if indeed a climate does exist among officers or whomever that they would rather discourage spotting then deal with it professionally then that should be your priority in your meeting. If that is addressed and all officers are made aware then we can move forward.

Thanks, Phil! I think this is definitely a step in the right direction.

Thank you Phil for all your hard work and effort to make things happen. This is great !

Phil, what Nick meant to say was "Thank you Phil" and no more :tongue:

Geesh...

Wow Phil, That is great news! Thank you for the work you put into it! I hope to get down to JFK soon!
Gene

Thanks for your tireless efforts Phil. This has been a long debate, and although what Nick may say is true, sometimes diplomacy is the better way to handle things.

I definitely agree that diplomacy is always best, which is why I feel I have been sticking to it.

Your thanks are welcome, but it's early yet. I'm hoping to get something in-hand that I can show and maybe even distribute to you all.

I will let you folks know how it goes tomorrow. I will be speaking at a board meeting which is open to the public, and also speaking separately with the people that I've been speaking to on the phone lately.

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Originally Posted by Phil D.

I definitely agree that diplomacy is always best, which is why I feel I have been sticking to it.

Your thanks are welcome, but it's early yet. I'm hoping to get something in-hand that I can show and maybe even distribute to you all.

I will let you folks know how it goes tomorrow. I will be speaking at a board meeting which is open to the public, and also speaking separately with the people that I've been speaking to on the phone lately.

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Where is the board meeting? I would like to go.

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Originally Posted by eric8669

Where is the board meeting? I would like to go.

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I only have info on speakers, but since it is "public" I do assume anyone can attend, and it'd be nice to have you.

Thursday November 15 at 1pm.
225 Park Avenue South, 15th Floor
New York, NY 10003

They told me that times MIGHT change, and to check their site...but I can't find it. If you do plan on going, I'll text you if I learn of changes.

I understand video will be made of the whole thing as well.

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Originally Posted by gonzalu

Phil, what Nick meant to say was "Thank you Phil" and no more :tongue:

Geesh...

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I will reserve my 'thanks' when some progress is gained. Phil simply called someone who basically told us what we already know. Shooting is fine as long as it isn't of checkpoints.

I hope the meetings go well and some process can be created where we can shoot without the negative encounters. If Phil can get the job done I will then convey my gratitude. I don't mean to break up the love fest, just being honest.