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Nick where did Phil even hint at entitlement? What Phil is saying is, if we act with respect generally there will not be an issue, and generally there isn't...how is that entitlement?
See, but there is an issue. Which is why we had 4 officers come up and two spend a long time with us taking down all of our info. Just because you feel a certain way about the issue doesn't mean there isn't one. If you look at this objectively and see that from the people that called and the second officer who was visably annoyed there is an issue. The entitlement comes from the fact that you feel as long we are not doing anything wrong we can camp out and shoot all afternoon. Where as if you look at it from all angles you may understand that constantly having a big group sitting on lawn chairs with cameras shooting planes that go by is not a good idea. Yesterday was a good indication that we shouldn't do that at that location on a regular basis. Would you do that at the IKEA lot at EWR? Of course not. Here we have a spot that has NCPD is a lot better than Elizabeth PD. Why push it?
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One of the main reasons the Air India lot is now gone is because of the pictures below... Both Matt and Gordon had no right to be where they were and Port has seen these pics and have asked me about them. This is what Phil is talking about...acting responsible. The below shots are the opposite of what Phil means. It has nothing to do with entitlement.
Actually Tom it has everything to do with entitlement. Gordon and Matt treated that area as their personal spotting location. Not private property. They used absolutely no common sense and thought only about themselves. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, well usually is. When we start to realize that some of these spots are not our personal spotting locations and start to treat them as places where with some common sense we can get some shots and not bring attention to ourselves we will be much better off.
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Sorry Matt, Matt and Gordan for using this as an example but this is spot on to what is being discussed here and does show irresponsible spotting. You guys really should not have been there.
Hmmm, I wonder why you have the change of heart Tommy. I kind of remember the first time I brought this up Gordon and Matt where supported in their actions by everyone here. Now we have a complete 180. Why?
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Did you read my post? I specifically said it was private property. We all know it's private proeprty, and we know that we've been enjoying a PRIVILEDGE of being there. No one, including myself, implied otherwise.
Yes I read your post Phil, your basically saying as long as we are not doing anything wrong we can shoot there. This is not the case, we have to understand that other factors are in play here. NCPD is quite accomadating but if we continue to have episodes like yesterday and refuse to limit our big groups conregrating there we risk losing the location.
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I think we all understand why people call the cops on us. We don't have a problem with that. I also completely understand why they find it to be suspicious. In fact, to an extent I encourage people to play it safe by calling the police on activities they feel is suspicious.
That is great Phil but your refusing to see that if happens too much someone whether it's NCPD or the property owner is going to fix the problem by not allowing us to spot there. Nobody is arguing what the police are doing or what we are doing. It's the path of least resistence.
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The Air India is is a little different, because that is a completely private employee lot, while Firestone is a privately-owned lot that does let patrons visit publicly.
Air India is a much more sensitive area, and I think that no matter what might have happened, that the area would have gotten us completely banned at some point or another. Even when we wouldn't leave our cars and cops would kick us out FAST. So I don't think Air India fits into the comparison, as it's much more extreme.
It is statements like this that scare me. Phil it is exactly the same situation. People have shot in the cargo area for years with no problem. Reason was they didn't walk right out to the landing lights and park themselves under landing aircraft. Plus if we played it cool and layed low we can always return there. Which is what I am adovacting for spots like Firestone. Use some common sense and don't shoot in big groups a lot. Go to other spots like Costco and Boston Market so we don't have people seeing us in the same spot all the time. Think about other people besides ourselves and we will be able to use the spot for a long time to come.
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Again, the original post here mentions what is for the most part a POSITIVE encounter with police. The only problem that I, or alse seems ot have, is that the one officer tried to scare us off a little, and even that wasn't a big deal I don't think. As I said earleir, it was unnecessary of him, but oh well.
Actually from where I sat I saw that these officers have patience with us but if we push our luck and make what happened yesterday the rule and not the exception we risk having what happened at cargo plaza happen at Firestone. I have said my peace and hope most here will use good judgement though I think they will not. If we lose this spot we have nobody to blame but the ones who disregard good advice and do what we saw at cargo plaza. Remember what you do effects us all. Think about that a little more. It will do us all a bit of good.