Very Recent JFK Incident at T6 Parking Lot

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Originally Posted by wunaladreamin

OH SHUT UP lol :tongue::tongue:

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OY!!!:eek::eek::cool:

I also appreciate everything that Phil is trying to do. Like everybody on this site, we a thrilled to see aircraft on the move and the terminals are the best place to see the aircraft, after all. Sadly, many terminals don't allow the public into the departure areas anymore unless ticketed for flights. I have spent countless hours in terminals pre 9-11 and had great times for the most part. The guys bothering me were always from Argenbright, not the PAPD. Amusingly, wasn't Argenbright guards the ones who cleared several of the 9-11 hijackers through on that terrible morning in Boston? They did a great job, however, of chasing-away spotters! I never had any problems with the PA or with TSA but with private guards at the terminals. Hopefully, spotters will be recognized as legitimate and won't be suspect when seen hanging-around airports. "Thanks" also to the guy from SAA at JFK's T4 who pulled the paper baggage tags from me after I told him that I collect these tags and like the multi-color scheme. I now get palps whenever I see the SAA aircraft.

Phil comes through again. I've been a spotter since the 70's and have seen how bad things are for spotters. It started with PanAm 103 and got much worse after 9-11. While we can understand how our hobby could look suspicious; people and law enforcement must be educated and learn that there are many who love aviation and are friends of the industry. Somebody suggested spotters get special photo IDs to wear around airports easily identifying us after a background check. This idea has never taken-off ground with the authorities. Maybe one-day!

Thank you to those who have offered kind words, your support means a lot. As I said, it's early yet to see what will really come of this, but I am glad to do what I can to help out the hobby. For all the time spent NOT spotting, folks like Matt and I are working on the site and related projects to hopefully serve the aviation world as we can. I am lucky that NYCA gets the this level of traffic and attention that now allows our voice to be heard when speaking to a powerhouse organization like PANYNJ.

Phil,

Congratulations on a job well done! Hopefully I'll be able to enjoy a little hassle-free night photography next time I'm in town... :D

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Originally Posted by NIKV69

This is great Phil but we have known that photography is allowed as long as it's not of security checkpoints. Nothing new. The problem is PA officers behavior toward us and how it is handled like when they lie to us when they tell us what we do is illegal. Or when a bad seed is encountered like in Bonanza's encounter. I spoke to a friend of my father who was a PA officer who just retired. His opinion is some sort of system is needed where any spotter should touch base with PA ops before they spot so shift officers are aware, etc. Then maybe when the calls come in they can handled better and a officer just doesn't try to run us off.

Like you alluded to before, if indeed a climate does exist among officers or whomever that they would rather discourage spotting then deal with it professionally then that should be your priority in your meeting. If that is addressed and all officers are made aware then we can move forward.

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Yes we have that system in place at IAD where we call and notify airport ops our presence if we are at the top of the parking garages. Then the ops will notify the airport police of our presence and its all over.

I decided to check back on this thread a month later to see where things stood. Phil you fought the good fight and hopefully some kind of progress will be made.

After reading Fasil's post and remembering that you have to call ahead of time in Boston as well, has anybody ever tried just calling PAPD and saying 'hey, just letting you know this is who I am, this is my car, I'm a plane spotter so I will be taking photos of the planes from some legal locations, then I'll be on my way, thank you.' I'm not asking for people's opinions about what they think would happen if they did that, I am asking if someone actually did it at JFK. If you did, please feel free to detail what happened here.

There was an unofficial procedure just like that at LGA, and it worked for a few months until one day they told us that we couldn't do that.

There was another time where the cops came and were confused as to why we called the cops on ourselves since photography wasn't allowed.

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Originally Posted by yankees368

I don't have a problem with the PA creating a rule banning photography on their property. If one is created, so be it. What we all should have a problem with, is their offers and employees making up law as they go, which is unacceptable. I support anyone who was harassed by a PAPD officer.



Was that this year? If not, that happened this year as well. A new parks employee at NW Park called the police, and a NCPD officer rolled down to talk to us. After we had a little chat, he said he knows it's not illegal, finish what we were there to do, and he wouldn't kick us out. How nice is that?

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It's long been my opinion the Port Authority has just been being clever all these post 911 years. NJ Transit and MTA (and many others) have found out the hard way they have very little in the way of legitimate legal standing to "ban" photography in what some imagine is "their world". The misguided perception is that, for example, and I read this years ago on an Anet forum "Massport [or whoever] can do whatever they want" on their property, in their sphere of influence, etc. Again, this is an incorrect notion. It may seem that way, but laws, policies, rules etc must always be reasonable rational and practical if they are to survive a challenge. Mindless photography "bans" will not pass muster in even the medium term and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey is smart enough to know this. And perhaps their unofficial piecemeal approach to the "issue" has some merit (I am not certain), but for it to work, restraint and wisdom has to be a part of the professionalism they expect from *all* their frontline officers. And most seem to quite good in my experience, but not this time.

I wish there was a petition to sign like the one going-around now to save the PanAm Worldport. It may not do any good, like those MTA hearings on fare hikes which are a joke, but at least it's something. Imagine a day when spotters don't have to look over their shoulder to see if they are being watched and harrassed. At least if the airports would offer a special observation area for spotters, that would be something! Remember when LGA used to have rocking chairs encouraging spotters at the Central Terminal?