KPHL/KEWR Security Updates

I live about 20 minutes away from KEWR and have been forcibly removed from that place more times that I can count. I have been there a lot so not many cops don't know who I am. I've been able to shoot through the fence in the Airis parking lot with a friend who works for Worldwide Flight Services and have the NYPD and PAPD just smile and wave as they drove by. That was when I was with a group. Did the same thing by myself and voila! I get busted within 10 minutes being there. I have concluded that there are two great places to slip the PAPD and NYPD. If you park in the Airis Dr. parking lot and stay in the car and shoot through the windows, you'll get some great shots of 22L arrivals and you could even get some shots through the fence from the front seat of your car. The cars patrolling the perimeter won't even notice you and you'll get some great shots of the 22L arrivals. When they are running the 4's go into the IKEA parking lot. I don't see what all the fuss is. Parked in a remote location many times and stayed in the car and got some great sunset shots of 4R arrivals. Those are the only two places acceptable at EWR that are both quality spots and save from police.
I also went to PHL for the first time and while it was a haul it was certainly worth it. Security there is almost non-existent patrolling the fenceline and although I don't recommend it, I got some few quality shots of touchdown smoke and a head on view down runway 35. We drove along Hog Island Road as they were running the 27's and 35 for the small guys. As long as you park your car on the other side of the road and cross the street to get to the fence you're all good. We stayed in the car and waited for the sound of a big jet coming then dashed across the road and setup to take pictures. A cop drove by a couple times but didn't really pay us any mind. I can't say all of them are like that but going in a group certainly helps. Right under the final approach course for 27L there is a road entrance to pull into and park. Park before it on the side away from the runway. There are railroad tracks and a concrete barrier that you can balance on and get some great head on shots. In conclusion, if you're going spotting at either EWR or PHL in the near future, READING THIS POST IS A MUST! I'M YOUR GUY FOR EWR/PHL SPOTTING! :cool::smile:

HEAD ON STANDING UNDER FINAL APP COURSE FOR 27L:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/124908...4/14662119128/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/124908...4/14662093250/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/124908...4/14846331484/

SHOOTING STRAIGHT DOWN RWY35 THROUGH THE FENCE:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/124908...4/14868621763/

STANDING NEXT TO FENCE BEFORE 35:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/124908...4/14845726831/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/124908...4/14846351264/

RIGHT NEXT TO THE FENCE NEAR 27L:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/124908...4/14662164878/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/124908...n/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/124908...4/14662110290/

KEWR AIRIS DRIVE:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/124908...4/14748951856/

KEWR AIRIS DR THROUGH FENCE:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/124908...4/14266553101/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/124908...4/14269874925/

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Originally Posted by Tlauc1999

I have concluded that there are two great places to slip the PAPD and NYPD.

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NYPD is working in Newark now? :confused:

He is referring to Newark York Police Department :tongue:

In all seriousness, I applaud you for having the balls to take chances with PAPD and Elizabeth PD. Second, the views of the touchdowns are insane... great vantage point. I am not sure if I would have the guts to hang out there.

Wow! This is terrific news! Everyone head to EWR! We got a guy now!

Where is EWR ?!?!! :confused:

Tlauc1999

Curious, you mention that you're able to get Sunset shots from IKEA parking lot of 4R arrivals (or departures, or 22 departures for that matter). Not sure how this can be as the sun would be in your face, no?

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Originally Posted by gonzalu

Tlauc1999

Curious, you mention that you're able to get Sunset shots from IKEA parking lot of 4R arrivals (or departures, or 22 departures for that matter). Not sure how this can be as the sun would be in your face, no?

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One day the sun was peering out from inside some clouds. The other day the airplanes blocked the sun and it kind of looked like an eclipse. If you shoot on an angle the sun can't do you much harm

Oh gotcha, thanks ... didn't think about the plane blocking the sun :wink:

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Originally Posted by Tlauc1999

I also went to PHL for the first time and while it was a haul it was certainly worth it. Security there is almost non-existent patrolling the fenceline and although I don't recommend it, I got some few quality shots of touchdown smoke and a head on view down runway 35. We drove along Hog Island Road as they were running the 27's and 35 for the small guys. As long as you park your car on the other side of the road and cross the street to get to the fence you're all good. We stayed in the car and waited for the sound of a big jet coming then dashed across the road and setup to take pictures. A cop drove by a couple times but didn't really pay us any mind. I can't say all of them are like that but going in a group certainly helps. Right under the final approach course for 27L there is a road entrance to pull into and park. Park before it on the side away from the runway. There are railroad tracks and a concrete barrier that you can balance on and get some great head on shots. In conclusion, if you're going spotting at either EWR or PHL in the near future, READING THIS POST IS A MUST! I'M YOUR GUY FOR EWR/PHL SPOTTING! :cool::smile:

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Regarding PHL,

There's no real dedicated areas for 27L arrivals - I've used my spots for 27R arrivals to get stuff arriving on 27L but they will only land on 27L if 27R is closed.

While you are good with parking on the other side of the road, I would not recommend hanging alongside the fence for photos. It's a bit risky and you may get asked to leave. Philadelphia Police constantly patrol Hog Island Road and most of them will wave at you. Most of the other spotters would try to get touchdown photos for any specials that come in.

Be careful around Fort Mifflin...

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Originally Posted by Steven Holzinger

Regarding PHL,

There's no real dedicated areas for 27L arrivals - I've used my spots for 27R arrivals to get stuff arriving on 27L but they will only land on 27L if 27R is closed.

While you are good with parking on the other side of the road, I would not recommend hanging alongside the fence for photos. It's a bit risky and you may get asked to leave. Philadelphia Police constantly patrol Hog Island Road and most of them will wave at you. Most of the other spotters would try to get touchdown photos for any specials that come in.

Be careful around Fort Mifflin...

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Just took a few shots through the fence. Like I said, we stayed in our cars and only went to the fence when we heard/saw something coming in. As for Fort Mifflin, there were a few other people parked in there just watching the planes so we decided to park there too

Just keep poking the bear...

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Originally Posted by Mateo

Just keep poking the bear...

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That's what a fellow spotter from MIA - Jonathan - a very nice guy, told us to do:

"MIA after 9/11 was same as in JFK now...Spotters there just keep coming, spotting...One day authorities just decided: maybe those guys aren't bad... That's how started all that security training programm @ MIA...."

And he told me and Sergio: "that's what you guys should do - just keep coming, spotting and ALWAYS talk nice to security/authorities...and security/authorities finally will see you not as a threat but as a help to ensure airport security..."

That's how things did change spotting @ MIA...

As another PHL guy who has been doing this for a little while, I would echo Steve's cautions to you. I have been approached there several times, even when parked on the other side of the road, even when 'just taking a few shots through the fence'. The cops there seem to be like the box of chocolate where you never know what you'll get...hell, we even had the coast guard come up to us last year because they wanted to make sure we weren't photographing the fuel farm

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Originally Posted by Mateo

Just keep poking the bear...

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Werent we down this road a few years ago with a young man and his adventures at EWR? Yup, keep poking........

From March 2013 to April 2014, I went to EWR every month and that has stopped. I used to go to the Airis Road parking lot quite often with a friend and have gotten kicked out of there every single time...you must have some luck ;)
Airis Road is actually very good for departures off of 4L, especially sunset shots - here's one I took last year when I didn't have my tripod : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e9O...jO56zkwotthUiA
For the 22L stuff from Airis, it's not bad, but you need to shoot through the fence- same for 29 arrivals.
You can also get some nice shots through the fence of aircraft taxiing to departure onto 22R at the Airis Road spot.
There are also some extreme close up taxi's of aircraft using full length 22R for takeoffs.

And of course there is P6...a great spot but the security is pretty bad there too. I started avoiding that spot last November.

And now, I avoid EWR in general. I now go to JFK which is much farther for me, but it's better - I don't have to deal with security anymore.

I have been going to EWR for a little while now and had avoided issues at the Ikea lot. I would park near the toys r us and photograph for like an hour. Yesterday I was there for a few minutes arriving just in time to catch the 10:30am departure of US Airways Arizona. After photographing the plane parking lot security informed me that per Elizabeth PD there is no photographs of the airplanes. I thanked him for informing me and proceeded to question if Toys R Us was open right now or if they were opening at 11 ;) I'll probably take a a little break from going to EWR. The good news was I was in a loaner vehicle so that car will never be back there again :D

As for PHL, I appreciate all that was done by Paul for making it a spotter tolerant airport. When I am at school, I'm at most 25 minutes away from there. It's a great place for me to go on a nice day to just clear my head and forget about all the stress I am under at school. I always park on the far side of the road and give a friendly wave to the Philly PD that drive by. Once or twice a local Tinicum Twp. police car has driven by, but never even looked at me.

Had a problem with 2 AB security cars up atop the T5 Garage last week. I spoke nicely to the lady and gentleman but was informed that credentials are required to take either photos or videos from the roof. I was told that I must leave. Others had told me that they had no problems at this same spot but I believe they showed some sort of FAA IDs or JFK employee IDs. I am a lone spotter without any credentials, so I left. Maybe a group spotting is a better option. The guards were extremely courteous and said they were just doing their jobs which I respect. How does a spotter get credentials?

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Originally Posted by Speedbird1

Had a problem with 2 AB security cars up atop the T5 Garage last week. I spoke nicely to the lady and gentleman but was informed that credentials are required to take either photos or videos from the roof. I was told that I must leave. How does a spotter get credentials?

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http://yellowpress.com/wp-content/up...c1-300x169.gif
http://yellowpress.com/free-press-pass/
Just one of many sites that you can download 'credentials', or try this...
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx....85.32&idno=47

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(7) The term representative of the news media refers to any person or entity that gathers information of potential interest to a segment of the public, uses its editorial skills to turn the raw materials into a distinct work, and distributes that work to an audience. In this clause, the term news means information that is about current events or that would be of current interest to the public. Examples of news-media entities are television or radio stations broadcasting to the public at large and publishers of periodicals (but only if such entities qualify as disseminators of news) who make their products available for purchase or subscription by, or free distribution to, the general public. These examples are not all-inclusive. Moreover, as methods of news delivery evolve (for example, the adoption of electronic dissemination of newspapers through telecommunications services), such alternative media shall be considered to be news-media entities. A freelance journalist shall be regarded as working for a news-media entity if the journalist can demonstrate a solid basis for expecting publication through that entity, whether or not the journalist is actually employed by the entity. A publication contract would present a solid basis for such an expectation; the Commission may also consider the past publication record of the requester in making such a determination.

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I've used it before, I'm a person, gathering info (aircraft photos) of interest to a (small) segment of the public, and I post on and as a member of Flightaware, a aviation news/info site.

I find it odd that the word "yellow" is in the title of that journalism site

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Originally Posted by megatop412

I find it odd that the word "yellow" is in the title of that journalism site

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Good ol' Yellow Journalism Aye? Haha
From what I've heard, it is very possible to obtain a "photog permit" from the port...It's just that I don't want to volunteer that I'm out spotting.
Has anybody tried obtaining a one day spotting pass?

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Originally Posted by Jared Blech

Good ol' Yellow Journalism Aye? Haha
From what I've heard, it is very possible to obtain a "photog permit" from the port...It's just that I don't want to volunteer that I'm out spotting.
Has anybody tried obtaining a one day spotting pass?

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If there were such a thing we all would have them by now. They do not want us out there, period. Some ponds have too many gators in them for fishing anything good out of

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Originally Posted by RWB

http://yellowpress.com/free-press-pass/
Just one of many sites that you can download 'credentials', or try this...
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx....85.32&idno=47

I've used it before, I'm a person, gathering info (aircraft photos) of interest to a (small) segment of the public, and I post on and as a member of Flightaware, a aviation news/info site.

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Using questionable credentials is a perfect way to get arrested and to make the authorities even more wary of aircraft spotters....

If you read the actual rules of PANYNJ, there is nothing banning photography by the public on airport grounds except in "sensitive areas" such as TSA checkpoints and the FIS areas. The roof of a parking garage really can't be considered a "sensitive area". Allied Barton doesn't seem to understand this, but PAPD usually does. In my experience, AB will try to chase us off almost every time, but when I have pushed back and they call in PAPD, the result is a "have a nice day, carry on" to the spotters and a nice long chat between the cop and the guard.

What IS prohibited is press activity on airport grounds without prior authorization from Media Relations. Commercial activity is also banned without prior permission. So by carrying a press pass (no matter if it is real or fake), you are actually running afoul of the stated policies of the airport.

I have long held that this is where the confusion stems from. Security erroneously equates all photography with being a function of the press, while PAPD will make the distinction. After all, they do always ask us why we are up there.

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Originally Posted by mldoc

If you read the actual rules of PANYNJ, there is nothing banning photography by the public on airport grounds except in "sensitive areas" such as TSA checkpoints and the FIS areas. The roof of a parking garage really can't be considered a "sensitive area". Allied Barton doesn't seem to understand this, but PAPD usually does. In my experience, AB will try to chase us off almost every time, but when I have pushed back and they call in PAPD, the result is a "have a nice day, carry on" to the spotters and a nice long chat between the cop and the guard.

What IS prohibited is press activity on airport grounds without prior authorization from Media Relations. Commercial activity is also banned without prior permission. So by carrying a press pass (no matter if it is real or fake), you are actually running afoul of the stated policies of the airport.

I have long held that this is where the confusion stems from. Security erroneously equates all photography with being a function of the press, while PAPD will make the distinction. After all, they do always ask us why we are up there.

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Interesting that this is brought up. So then the issue around KEWR is really Elizabeth PD and not really the PA of NY/NJ. As for a sensitive area, it would have to be what you are photographing, not necessarily where you are taking the picture from.

Which garage are you taking from?

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Originally Posted by Len90

Interesting that this is brought up. So then the issue around KEWR is really Elizabeth PD and not really the PA of NY/NJ. As for a sensitive area, it would have to be what you are photographing, not necessarily where you are taking the picture from.

Which garage are you taking from?

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The issue is totally with Elizabeth PD. I swear their cars looks exactly like the NYPD.... The only people to trespass me were the Elizabeth PD

Quick PHL update: A group of us were down on Hog Island by the end of 27L last week for the EK203 departure after diverting to PHL. Lots of Philadelphia police drove by said nothing. A K-9 unit passed by, turned around, put on the lights and stopped by. Officer never left his car and stated he didn't care that we were taking pictures. He just wanted to make sure we were not doing and burnouts or drag racing on the road. Encounter was very friendly, officer never left his vehicle, never asked to see ID or names and he left as soon as he came.

I had a run-in with an overzealous PANYNJ employee at the Airtrain station in Terminal A. She was screaming and yelling at me that photos were not allowed. There was a police officer downstairs responding to something else. He saw my camera and my shirt (I was there for Family Day) and asked if I took any decent shots. I showed him a few and he seemed interested. I asked if it would be a problem if I took some shots of the planes on the tarmac out the window. He said it was no problem. I went back upstairs where the same PANYNJ woman nearly screamed her lungs out at me. I told her that the cop said it was ok. She told me that "that's downstairs, you're up here." I went back to the cop, told him what happened, and was told that although there's no policy against photography, he's not allowed to explicitly give me permission to do so and apologized. I sent PANYNJ an email about what happened, and they responded with an apology and a letter that essentially counts as "permission" should I be accosted by another PANYNJ employee.