Re: Southwest's A list is more like the F list
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Originally Posted by NIKV69
OK, well if he shows up during boarding of the group behind his original group? What does WN do? You see you can't have a system that has certain parties line up unless you are going to do it in order of who checked in earlier and who was in line. It's more organized and as we have seen with Tommy ruffles less feathers. IMO WN should not have strayed from their original system. Why sell biz tickets? You are not a biz carrier. Your a cattle car carrier. When you try to mix the two you get what Tommy experienced in this attempt to use the system.
Guess what, that person is not flying on WN then. His seat was already given away. This already was the case anyway in the old boarding group of A, B and C. It was his fault for showing up late.
He should be at the gate 10 min before departure and in the area and checked in up to 20 minutes before departure.
Southwest is VERY much a business carrier, WN's ENTIRE business plan is centered around business people, has been from the start, and always will be. WN has never catered to the vacation, leisure people at all. Business people has always been their bread and butter.
Don't even try to call WN a cattle car carrier, the situation could be deemed as one, but SWA is still a Major Airline catering to the business traveler, just like every other airline, by doing constant hour by hour departure on highly touted business routes.
WN sells biz tickets to cater TO the business people who travel on SWA, and to offer a better advantage of flying WN more then ever, priority boarding, free drink, and extra points to their system, in the same way flying in F gets you a 50% mileage extra on other airlines.
Alex
Re: Southwest's A list is more like the F list
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Guess what, that person is not flying on WN then. His seat was already given away. This already was the case anyway in the old boarding group of A, B and C. It was his fault for showing up late.
All the more reason the new system WN is trying will have a tough time working. You are trying to adapt to a boarding system that more closely resembles assigned seating yet when something happens like someone being a little late you revert back to your old model. Got to figure out what your idenity is.
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Southwest is VERY much a business carrier, WN's ENTIRE business plan is centered around business people, has been from the start, and always will be. WN has never catered to the vacation, leisure people at all. Business people has always been their bread and butter.
Don't even try to call WN a cattle car carrier, the situation could be deemed as one, but SWA is still a Major Airline catering to the business traveler, just like every other airline, by doing constant hour by hour departure on highly touted business routes.
WN sells biz tickets to cater TO the business people who travel on SWA, and to offer a better advantage of flying WN more then ever, priority boarding, free drink, and extra points to their system, in the same way flying in F gets you a 50% mileage extra on other airlines.
Actually Alex WN was born with one thing in mind. Moving anyone to and fro. Doing it cheaper than anyone else. To achieve this they adopted certain unique practices. Such as a one aircraft fleet to greatly reduce mx cost. Doing away with the hub and spoke system. Quickest turnarounds facilatated by boarding without assigned seats, FAs cleaning planes. Pilots who taxi like Mario Andretti etc. No food, blankets etc. Overselling planes and not giving people as much as other carriers would when they give up their seats when AA bumps one of their valued biz pax they put him up in the best hotel in NYC, give him meals and have him on the next plane out in the morning. With WN if someone missed their connection they missed their connection. Basically like having a bunch of buses with wings. Now WN did great IMO with this and it is why they make money and for the most part get people to their destination on time and safe. BUT don't call them a biz carrier. Just because there are people that use WN for business to reap the rewards of low frills and low cost does not make them a biz carrier. I don't fly WN as much as you but in the year 2007 I flew on 6 flights and can't remember seeing one jacket and tie on any of the flights. A biz carrier takes care of it's biz pax and as we saw with Tommy that did not happen. It's still a matter of who buys the ticket first and who checks in first. Why WN is trying this escapes me. Unless Tommy's experience was an fluke (which I doubt) this new system is not going to work as planned.
Re: Southwest's A list is more like the F list
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All the more reason the new system WN is trying will have a tough time working. You are trying to adapt to a boarding system that more closely resembles assigned seating yet when something happens like someone being a little late you revert back to your old model. Got to figure out what your idenity is.
Nick- If a passenger show up LATE, regardless of what he booked on, this is HIS fault and his seat will be given away to a stand by revenue passenger or non rev, whatever the listing goes at the gate.
A passenger showing up late and not boarding in his assigned row is not going to make SWA go back to their old ways, and every airline does this.
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Overselling planes and not giving people as much as other carriers would when they give up their seats when AA bumps one of their valued biz pax they put him up in the best hotel in NYC, give him meals and have him on the next plane out in the morning.
Overselling planes, like every airline does...? Not giving much back? That is absolutely untrue, the law states every airline must give back a compensation, their one way refund back plus 100 dollar voucher combined if confirmed within 2 hours, and 200 plus one way voucher if not confirmed on next flight.
It is my understanding AA would NOT bump a biz person and would bump someone else. If the airline cannot get someone to compensate they usually bump in order of last person checked in from what I understood.
As for hotels I don't even know how that follows I dont work for AA. As for WN, I have never had a bumped passenger to be put up in a hotel, I always got them on the next flight, and it was always voluntarily (thank god), I never denied anyone.
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With WN if someone missed their connection they missed their connection. Basically like having a bunch of buses with wings.
No if they missed their connection, they go on the next flight, again like another airline would do. I don't understand why your trying to make WN be the bad apple, EVERY airline would follow the same procedure.
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BUT don't call them a biz carrier. Just because there are people that use WN for business to reap the rewards of low frills and low cost does not make them a biz carrier. I don't fly WN as much as you but in the year 2007 I flew on 6 flights and can't remember seeing one jacket and tie on any of the flights.
Southwest Airlines is a business airline in terms of they cater specifically to the business people in the manner you described it, low fares, generally, and constant, quick and effective flights on an hourly basis, once again usually in highly touted business routes.
Fly DAL-HOU, STL-MDW, STL-MCI, STL-DAL, MCO-FLL, PHX-LAS, etc etc those type of routes you will see a constant stream of business suits, of course not every business person is going to actually wear a suit, i never wore a suit on my business trips with SWA hahaha.
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A biz carrier takes care of it's biz pax and as we saw with Tommy that did not happen. It's still a matter of who buys the ticket first and who checks in first. Why WN is trying this escapes me. Unless Tommy's experience was an fluke (which I doubt) this new system is not going to work as planned.
This I agree, for some reason, Tommy did not get a higher boarding pass, but he is NOT, I repeat NOT a business select passenger, he booked this as an A List, so his priority is lower. I did tell him to complain to the airline as I am sure he will, WN cannot fix anything if no one complains.
WN is trying this because the majority of the passengers voted for this type. Yes, Mgmt made the final decision, but it was repeated over and over the majority of WN's passengers loved this new procedure.
I would hope it is a fluke, because I have not heard of anything like this anywhere else, but I do not have the facts of this trip to decide how many business select AND Alist passengers there actually were on this flight. As laughable as it sounds, there COULD BE just that many business select and A list passengers on his flight, his flight is also very full which doesn't help.
I don't see WN changing or getting rid of this procedure, its going quite well for the many other passengers.
Alex
Re: Southwest's A list is more like the F list
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Originally Posted by Alex T
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Fly DAL-HOU, STL-MDW, STL-MCI, STL-DAL, MCO-FLL, PHX-LAS, etc etc those type of routes you will see a constant stream of business suits, of course not every business person is going to actually wear a suit, i never wore a suit on my business trips with SWA hahaha.
Having flown MDW-STL-MDW & BWI-STL-BWI last winter every week for 2 and a half months, I will agree with Alex here. Lots of suits on those flights.
Re: Southwest's A list is more like the F list
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Southwest is VERY much a business carrier, WN's ENTIRE business plan is centered around business people, has been from the start, and always will be. WN has never catered to the vacation, leisure people at all. Business people has always been their bread and butter.
Don't even try to call WN a cattle car carrier, the situation could be deemed as one, but SWA is still a Major Airline catering to the business traveler, just like every other airline, by doing constant hour by hour departure on highly touted business routes.
WN sells biz tickets to cater TO the business people who travel on SWA, and to offer a better advantage of flying WN more then ever, priority boarding, free drink, and extra points to their system, in the same way flying in F gets you a 50% mileage extra on other airlines.
I have also seen families fly WN a lot also, that of course is in the summer or during parts of the year that kids are not in school.
My views of this new boarding procedure is this- and Alex already seen my views- and lucky me I get to try this out on the 27th of this month.
I personally like the way the old boarding procedure was- I was always the first one on line and I didn't have to pay 132 dollars for it. Me personally I hate change, I admit that, but if this new procedure gives me a window seat to and from BWI then hey maybe I can write something different.
Alex will probably kill me for saying all this but hey I too am his WN partner in crime!
Re: Southwest's A list is more like the F list
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the law states every airline must give back a compensation, their one way refund back plus 100 dollar voucher combined if confirmed within 2 hours, and 200 plus one way voucher if not confirmed on next flight.
Yea but that is nothing compared to what real biz airlines do. They offer much more to them and the people that give up seats.
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No if they missed their connection, they go on the next flight, again like another airline would do. I don't understand why your trying to make WN be the bad apple, EVERY airline would follow the same procedure.
Not exactly, I have a friend who is AA plat and his flight was cancelled due to wx. AA put him up in ORD Hilton, car service and meals. I mean it's not the fairest comparison but that is a biz carrier. WN is a LLC that occasionally flies biz pax.
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i never wore a suit on my business trips with SWA hahaha.
Why would you? Your not a business man. Your a CSA for WN. LOLOLOL
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I repeat NOT a business select passenger
Here lies the problem. WN is trying to classify a biz pax by someone who just paid a little more fare. Not someone who has already flown and patronized the airline like Tommy has. As I said before WN is trying to re-invent the wheel here. To do this properly people like Tommy who actually does travel on business should get the rewards but since WN never had a biz select fare until now he is just a RR member who gets put behind them. Doesn't make much sense.
Re: Southwest's A list is more like the F list
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Not exactly, I have a friend who is AA plat and his flight was cancelled due to wx. AA put him up in ORD Hilton, car service and meals. I mean it's not the fairest comparison but that is a biz carrier. WN is a LLC that occasionally flies biz pax.
Well that certainly was nice of WN to do considering it was a WX and AA should not have done anything, but hey thats good customer service!
and Man its LCC, not LLC ;)
Occasionally flies business paxs? hehe check the facts, I am willing to bet WN flies one of the highest if not top say maybe 3 or 5 spots of business passengers.
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Why would you? Your not a business man. Your a CSA for WN. LOLOLOL
Well, I had a lot of business trips on WN, I just never wore a suit.
Not a CSA for them anymore, on a leave of absence for now.
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WN never had a biz select fare until now he is just a RR member who gets put behind them. Doesn't make much sense.
To be put more specifically, since he did give WN a lot of money and business he got put on the A List, which is ABOVE regular passengers but behind Business Select Paxs.
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I have also seen families fly WN a lot also, that of course is in the summer or during parts of the year that kids are not in school.
Bobby, that is very obvious, and every airline will see this, We are only discussing how often we see business people.
Alex
Re: Southwest's A list is more like the F list
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Well that certainly was nice of WN to do considering it was a WX and AA should not have done anything, but hey thats good customer service!
Ahhh spoken like a true member of WN. You see Alex AA did what they did because they truly appreciate the fact that this man flies millions of miles around the world with them. Rather than save money like WN would want to do in this situation they said to this person we are going to do the right thing for you since you do the right thing for us. WN's attittude would be a totally different one such as your "It was wx and shouldn't have done anything. This is one of the differences between a real biz carrier and WN.
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I am willing to bet WN flies one of the highest if not top say maybe 3 or 5 spots of business passengers.
Well pay up because you lost that bet.
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Well, I had a lot of business trips on WN, I just never wore a suit.
Not a CSA for them anymore, on a leave of absence for now.
Alex your not a businessman. Your trips were work related ferrying. Big difference. A business traveler is some who actually works in the business world. Take my friends dad. Also an AA plat. He works for a big Japanese bank. Flies to Japan twice a month, all over the USA all the time. Handles financing on things like Embraer building their aircrafts etc. That is a businessman who utilizes an airline to fly in a business capacity. Tommy flies to places to conduct his work for his company. That is a business traveler.
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To be put more specifically, since he did give WN a lot of money and business he got put on the A List, which is ABOVE regular passengers but behind Business Select Paxs.
Exactly so Tommy who is a real biz pax has to wait for 50 people. Where anyone can pony up a few more bucks and board first and take the better seats. You see by not actually having an assigned seat it's still hit or miss. Which Tommy found out the hard way.
Re: Southwest's A list is more like the F list
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Ahhh spoken like a true member of WN. You see Alex AA did what they did because they truly appreciate the fact that this man flies millions of miles around the world with them. Rather than save money like WN would want to do in this situation they said to this person we are going to do the right thing for you since you do the right thing for us. WN's attittude would be a totally different one such as your "It was wx and shouldn't have done anything. This is one of the differences between a real biz carrier and WN.
Actually I have given hotel rates for WX delays and such for good customer service. We do right by customer service, not by saving money.
So try again.
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Well pay up because you lost that bet.
Facts Please? Considering WN flies the highest amount of passengers in the world, I would be very sure WN fits in the top 5 for flying the most amount of business passengers.
One link states WN is the number one choice for business travelers..while it doesnt show that WN actually DOES fly the most I again would be surprised if WN doesn't crak the top 5.
1. Southwest Airlines
Southwest always delivers consistent customer service, friendly faces, and in many cases, well-timed comedic delivery. Staff think outside of the corporate "box" and are creative in serving their customers (on a recent flight from New Orleans, the flight attendant delivered a hilarious take on the typical air safety presentation). Southwest's Rapid Rewards program is one of the best frequent flier programs (who needs miles when we can have points?!), and their prices usually undercut the national carriers. The quick rewards and affordable prices make this airline tops with business travelers.
Top Picks: Southwest Airlines
http://businesstravel.about.com/od/airl ... nes_tp.htm
with B6 following 2nd, AA 3rd, CO 4th, and UA 5th...
Anyhow if you can find a link disputing it or showing WN does not fly a lot of business passengers please post it and I'll gladly admit defeat in that area.
As for the rest..what defines a business traveler? Whats work related ferrying? I had to fly to a meeting or stuff to do work for SWA. That is a business trip, i was fortunate I got to fly for free, being I worked for an airline. I would define anyone who is on a business trip, flying for work as a business man, is it going to be the Jack who bought a business select fare, is he a business man? Is it gonna be the 30,000 mile flyer who only flies coach but still offers a lot of money to the airline a businessman? I certainly am not claiming to BE a business man and certainly have no claim to do so, but I have done business trips where I had to fly for SWA for work stuff.
Alex
Re: Southwest's A list is more like the F list
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Actually I have given hotel rates for WX delays and such for good customer service. We do right by customer service, not by saving money.
In the eyes of WN you do. If you compared it to real biz carriers you would fall far short. Your a no frills airline.
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Considering WN flies the highest amount of passengers in the world, I would be very sure WN fits in the top 5 for flying the most amount of business passengers.
This is a very misleading stat. Sure you fly the most people, but you probably fall very short in miles. Serious Biz travelers don't fly ISP-BWI or the millions of short hops WN does. Include miles into that statistic. Truth be known real business travelers that fly serious miles will pick AA and CO over you every time and do on a regular basis. If you look at some of the rankings out there that are not based just on bodies flown carries like Frontier and B6 are higher. Or when JD power asked people that fly who the best is they said CO.
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/su ... 755622_ITM
You see Alex most people flown doesn't translate into top of anything.
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As for the rest..what defines a business traveler?
A lawyer who travels somewhere to meet a client. Someone like Tommy who goes to another place where the company he works for in NY has a building and he does the same thing. They are in the business world. You are a gate agent for an airline. Your like a FA that is dead heading. Your not putting any money into the company, your merely enjoying a perk of your job. A businessman is someone who plops down (or his co plops down) top fare to fly. Thus gets treated better than the recreational traveler. WN is trying to redo that equation.
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is it going to be the Jack who bought a business select fare, is he a business man
Probably not. I am not a business man but I can afford to plop down the extra money to get the fare and get on the plane first.
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Is it gonna be the 30,000 mile flyer who only flies coach but still offers a lot of money to the airline a businessman
If he is flying that much then he most likley is a businessman and has probably put much more into the airline than me who flew once and bought a biz fare. Which is why Tommy is not happy.
Re: Southwest's A list is more like the F list
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Serious Biz travelers don't fly ISP-BWI or the millions of short hops WN does.
Ok, so if they fly SWA, they are not serious business travelers? Nick, think again, the business people DO IN FACT fly the "million of short hops". Why do you think WN flies them? To attract and cater to the business travelers who need that short hop flight and such.
Thanks for the other replies to my questions.
Alex
Re: Southwest's A list is more like the F list (Updated 12/15)
Well I'm back now from Florida and after experiencing WN's new boarding practice I have to say its terrible. I was just truly amazed at how needlessly complicated the procedure is and how totally unprofessional it was. I'm not even sure where to begin but it was enough of a joke to ensure most of my flying in 2008 will not be with Southwest. For those who say the passengers like it....I call Bull**** because the morning I left from ISP I've never seen so many people complain about the same thing while traveling before. Unless you get a really good fare on Southwest I'd look to fly another airline.
Re: Southwest's A list is more like the F list (Updated 12/15)
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Why do you think WN flies them
WN started flying them becasue they did away with the traditional hub and spoke system when they began the LCC revoultion. Just because some biz travelers utilize them doesn't mean WN is a biz carrier. They aren't.
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Well I'm back now from Florida and after experiencing WN's new boarding practice I have to say its terrible. I was just truly amazed at how needlessly complicated the procedure is and how totally unprofessional it was. I'm not even sure where to begin but it was enough of a joke to ensure most of my flying in 2008 will not be with Southwest. For those who say the passengers like it....I call Bull**** because the morning I left from ISP I've never seem so many people complain about the same thing while traveling before
Not a surprise. I think what WN did here is a crucial mistake. Why would they ever want to mess with what made them. I know I know Alex get's a little defensive with respect to his love for WN but look it without a bias and you will see that they are making a huge mistake here. Why they would want to start selling a higher fare and holding rows for certain people is beyond me. Especially if someone who has flown them a ton more has to wait even after they have checked in first. A B C, it is as easy as that. First checked in, first in line, first to board. It's how it worked so well before. I think Tommy's experience is typical and unfortunate. Everyone knows WN will fight to the end not to go to assigned seating for obvious reasons but to try to have this alternative is as Tommy said, confusing, unprofessional and frustrating.
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Unless you get a really good fare on Southwest I'd look to fly another airline.
What about your license plate? http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-12/905683/spin.gif
Re: Southwest's A list is more like the F list (Updated 12/15)
Anyone like Tommy who does free advertising for WN every time he drives (license plate) should automatically get priority boarding but unfortunately most airline mgrs (any carrier) aren't smart enough to appreciate the value of customers like Tommy.
Tommy things are improving here at US, feel free to fly US when u can.
Cheers
LGA777
Re: Southwest's A list is more like the F list (Updated 12/15)
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Originally Posted by T-Bird76
So taking advantage of Southwest's new A list program I was looking forward to their system checking me in automatically and providing me with a choice position in the A group for my trip to Florida tomorrow, after all they're highly touted "A List" program was designed to put their best customers first right? Well I go to reprint my boarding pass this morning and my position is A52.....Are you seriously going to tell me this flight has 52 A list Rapid Reward members on it? Somehow I seriously doubt it.
First impressions are lasting and so far my first impression of WN's new boarding and loyalty programs gets a big fat F! Looks like I will not be flying SWA as much as I used to in the future if this is what I'm to expect of their A list program. I almost have to wonder if they randomly pick line positions when a person is checked in because in this situation it just doesn't seem like it’s in a sequential manner.
That is a heck of a statement coming from you Tommy! Wow.
