UAE Flight 201 on Sat. Aug. 24

[Speedbird1]

I am curious about something. I was at Arthur Ashe Stadium on Sat., Aug 24 and noticed the Emirates flight 201 overhead at about 16,000'. The visibility was unlimited. The ATIS said that JFK was using the 4's. I later tracked the arrival as my neighbors' were supposed to be aboard and learned that the flight made a 4R MAP then was vectored around Long Island to Rwy 22L but never landed as well and again was vectored around south to the VOR 13L Approach. Was there any problem with the aircraft? Many aircraft do 1 MAP but 2 misses is unusual. By the way, the top of the Stadium would be excellent for spotters as you clearly see LGA operations. Unfortunately, the Stadium is used for tennis and concerts but who amongst us could resist spotting as well?

[Jared Blech]

Don and I were also watching it, What I believe happened was...He went around after an approach for 4R, He then was vectored at 1600 FEET! over my house in Jericho...Then he made a U-Turn back towards 22L, but didn't land, he then joined the approach for 13L and Landed...MAN HE WAS LOW!

[yankees368]

Indeed, that is pretty wild. They broke off the approaches for 4, then 22, and finally landed 13L. I was not around yesterday, so I don't know what the wind was link. Very likely they didn't like the wind on approach, and broke off.

http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o743/yankees369/snip_zps53171f24.jpg (http://s1341.photobucket.com/user/yankees369/media/snip_zps53171f24.jpg.html)

[Mateo]

4R/22L is relatively short, so there's probably very little margin for a tailwind allowance. If winds are reported as light and variable, you have to assume a 3 or 4 knot tailwind (I forget the exact), and this may have put the 380 out of limits for the runway. He may have been good to land on 4R with a report of something like 070/5 when he was cleared for the approach, but if it then became light and variable while he was shooting the approach, he'd have to break it off.

[Speedbird1]

Glad to hear that the problem was wind-related and not a mechanical problem. Is the A388 very sensitive to wind shear? Got to see the UAE A388 again Sunday afternoon on approach to 13L.

[lijk604]

Saw the whole thing happen in front of me. After he was cleared for the approach to 4R, tower started getting an automated wind shear alert, and, the aircraft ahead reported a gain of 20 knots at the field. EK201 floated it down the runway well past touchdown, so they initiated a missed approach...the main gears however already had touched down so it was a touch and go. At this point JFK switched to the 22"s, and as Jason mentioned he was vectored low into the pattern. Just as he was given clearance to land a second time (approx 3 mile final) the automated wind shear alert system came on again, and it was reporting another tailwind. The pilots stated that they could not accept 22L now for landing and requested 31L. Tower sent him to NY for resequencing, and JFK went to the 13/22 split. As they were #3 for 13L the warning system activated again, however, the 2 aircraft ahead did not report any shear. This was passed along to Emirates and the finally landed. If anyone can crab the Live ATC recording, it makes for an interesting listen.

[Speedbird1]

Thanks for all the details; sounds very exciting. I'd love to hear the ATC tape of all this live. The passengers must have had a "ball" ascending then descending numerous times. They also got a great tour over Long Island, Queens, and the Jersey Shore. Wonder if Gov. Christie was at the beach? Is the A388 more sensitive to a tail wind or wind shear than other aircraft? I was surprised that the aircraft didn't arrive on 13R rather than 13L, preferring a longer runway just in case of another go-around. I spotted the aircraft at 1353 at about 16,000. I clearly saw the red Emirates logo on its belly with the naked eye as visibility was unlimited. Aviation always is an exciting activity.

[Gerard]

I am curious about something. I was at Arthur Ashe Stadium on Sat., Aug 24 and noticed the Emirates flight 201 overhead at about 16,000'. The visibility was unlimited. The ATIS said that JFK was using the 4's. I later tracked the arrival as my neighbors' were supposed to be aboard and learned that the flight made a 4R MAP then was vectored around Long Island to Rwy 22L but never landed as well and again was vectored around south to the VOR 13L Approach. Was there any problem with the aircraft? Many aircraft do 1 MAP but 2 misses is unusual.

What time was this? We flew in from Syracuse that afternoon and followed the route high over NJ, crossing Manhattan, Queens, LI then out over the Atlantic where we made a right turn and set up for the Runway 13L arrival!! When we left Syracuse (jetBlue Flight 1515 an EMB190) around 2:55 they did mention gusty winds at JFK. Flight was uneventful but my seat on the right side of the aircraft afforded me spectacular and breathtaking views on a beautiful clear day!!

[Landing Lights]

If anybody cares to give a listen, the archived recording is available here for about the next week (http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kjfk/KJFK-Twr-Aug-24-2013-1800Z.mp3).

[Speedbird1]

Thanks. I plan to listen to the ATC tape. I am curious if runway usage is decided by the guys in the JFK Tower or at the Tracon in Westbury? I always thought Approach control was from the Tracon but Final Approach, Clearance, Ground and Departure are all done at the JFK Tower.

[Mateo]

I wouldn't say the 380 is any more or less susceptible to wind shear, but 4L/22R is only 8400'. If, for example, calculated landing distance is 8000', but then a tailwind component develops and you have to add 10%, then landing distance now becomes 8800' and out of limits for the runway, hence the go-around. Many airlines will also have an SOP that if you receive a wind shear alert below a certain altitude, then break off the approach and try again.

[Speedbird1]

JFK almost always uses either Rwy 22L/4R for late afternoon arrivals. This is so they can use 2 departure runways, Rwy 31L and 22R simultaneously. This is named Enhanced Departures. They often do this with little consideration of wind conditions, such as gusts or shear. They are trying to cut-down on departure delays, which is understandable. However, it appears that when windy conditions exist, the 3-runway configuration is still used. Only rarely are the 13s or 31s used for arrivals in late afternoon. The overuse of the VOR DME 22L arrival path even extends all night long and has been reported on local news media for over a year. While the FAA promises to investigate, nothing has been done.

[Speedbird1]

The incident at JFK happened Sat. Afternoon between 2pm and was over well- before 3. The wind gusts quickly subsided as I was sitting at Arthur Ashe Stadium near the top and I never noticed paper cups blowing around and my cap never flew-off. Hope your flight was great!

[wunaladreamin]

Yes well although Flight Aware says that AFR flight 6 on Aug. 16 from CDG to JFK was an A388, I spotted it yesterday and was surprised to see a B77W instead. Passur confirms that it was a B77W. Imagine the disappointment of the passengers who bragged to their friends that they were flying on the "Super Jumbo". I guess there were technical problems and AFR had no spare A388 lying around for boarding.

[Speedbird1]

Strange that Flight Aware lists the AFR 6 flight as an A388; yet I clearly spotted a triple 777. Cheers!

[Gerard]

Yes well although Flight Aware says that AFR flight 6 on Aug. 16 from CDG to JFK was an A388, I spotted it yesterday and was surprised to see a B77W instead. Passur confirms that it was a B77W. Imagine the disappointment of the passengers who bragged to their friends that they were flying on the "Super Jumbo"

Back in 2010 when we arrived at CDG from Venice we were walking towards our gate when I saw the A380 sitting there!! Boy was I surprised when I saw it was sitting at our gate!! Yes I did brag to my friends!! Only the aviation interested friends gave a crap!! LOL!!!

[Gerard]

The incident at JFK happened Sat. Afternoon between 2pm and was over well- before 3. The wind gusts quickly subsided as I was sitting at Arthur Ashe Stadium near the top and I never noticed paper cups blowing around and my cap never flew-off. Hope your flight was great!

Thanks and yes it was a great flight!! What a beautiful day for gawking out the window while flying!! :cool: