National Air Cargo 744 Crash at Bagram

[hiss srq]

A National Air Cargo possibly carrying as many as 8 crew onboard has crashed on takeoff from Bagram Air Force Base with no survivors. The Afghan goverment has already came out denying that any sort of attack occured resulting in this crash, according to the images being posted on another site, it appears that the airplane crashed very close to the airport, possibly still on it's property. As of now, the registration of the airplane is undetermined.

[Delta777LR]

It was N949CA one of the ex Air France birds. This seems to be an odd crash

2207495
Created by Airliners.net BBCode Generator (http://mannyphoto.com/airliners.php)

more here
http://avherald.com/h?article=46183bb4&opt=0

[yankees368]

Thanks for the heads up. So very sad :-(

[727C47]

rest in peace brothers

[Cary]

A bunch of us photographed it from T5 back in 2011:
1992470

RIP to the crew :frown:

[Roush6NY]

Very sad indeed, RIP to the crew

http://images3.jetphotos.net/img/3/3/7/3/74369_1316987373_tb.jpg (http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=7213285&nseq=35)

[Zee71]

RIP to those who lost their souls from this unfortunate crash.

http://mbsphotography.smugmug.com/Aviation/Airplanes-and-Spotting/Kennedy-JFK/i-Mzn8396/0/L/NationalCargo_03_JFK_18Sep2011_Taxi-L.jpg

[NIKV69]

R.I.P.

[Jared Blech]

R.I.P

[gonzalu]

Damn.. .this is very sad...

http://theloadstar.co.uk/breaking-news-national-air-cargo-crash-at-bagram/

2080535

[Zee71]

Is it me ..... But I haven't seen anything on the local news and even the big guys like CNN and FOX of this disaster. What's up with that?

[Cal07]

R.I.P..

[Landing Lights]

Is it me ..... But I haven't seen anything on the local news and even the big guys like CNN and FOX of this disaster. What's up with that?

Its not just you, Mark. As significant as the whole Jason Collins thing was yesterday, seeing so many stories and videos about that while this event was not even mentioned bothered me a bit. Sure it may have happened half a world away, but this was a US based carrier serving US interests overseas and with what was likely a crew made up mostly of Americans, and it doesn't even get a sentence written about it in the mainstream media.

[moose135]

Is it me ..... But I haven't seen anything on the local news and even the big guys like CNN and FOX of this disaster. What's up with that?
It was a cargo aircraft, with just a small crew on board, crashing in a far away place. I wouldn't expect the news to spend much time talking about it. If you're not an airplane enthusiast, or otherwise connected to it, I suspect if you wouldn't be spending much time thinking about it either.

[yankees368]

It was briefly mentioned on CNN.com and the other news sites, but quickly forgotten about.

[Delta777LR]

that should have been one of the important topics, that is surprising. 8 lives were lost.

[moose135]

that should have been one of the important topics, that is surprising. 8 lives were lost.
If 8 Americans were killed in a car crash in South America, would anyone here post about it?

[Cary]

The timestamp is wrong, but this looks like legitimate video of the crash (viewer discretion advised) :frown:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c32_1367332518

[eric8669]

That is just insane.

[nexpos]

God that is TERRIBLE.

[Zee71]

Unbelievable that someone was able to capture the crash. Watching it and knowing the outcome sent shivers throughout my body.

[Aviation.High.Guy]

That's horrific. R.I.P.

[Derf]

It looks like the cargo broke loose and went aft on rotation changing the center of gravity so far aft they entered an uncontrolled pitch up stalling the aircraft.

[727C47]

God bless the crew, and their families. that video was shattering.

[727C47]

they pulled the video,thats a good thing

[Derf]

I agree

[mirrodie]

Wow. Just incredible.

[NickPeterman]

Video is back up.

Saw this earlier today, and literally sat there with my mouth open in horror. I have witnessed a near crash before due to a stall like this, but this was just shockingly tragic. Personally, I don't think it has any place out here on the internet, but that is a whole separate conversation...

[NIKV69]

It looks like the cargo broke loose and went aft on rotation changing the center of gravity so far aft they entered an uncontrolled pitch up stalling the aircraft.

This..

As for why it didn't get any play on the news. The 24 hour news cycle doesn't work that way, if it isn't terrorism, a domestic pax carrier that crashed in the US they have no need for it.

[Aviation.High.Guy]

This..

As for why it didn't get any play on the news. The 24 hour news cycle doesn't work that way, if it isn't terrorism, a domestic pax carrier that crashed in the US they have no need for it.

Let's see if the news media has a need for it now that there are graphic visuals that can "boost the ratings". Unfortunately, it's always about the ratings.

[wunaladreamin]

That video is just insane.

[Gerard]

Let's see if the news media has a need for it now that there are graphic visuals that can "boost the ratings". Unfortunately, it's always about the ratings.

You called it!! Once the video went viral its looks like the media being is picking it up !!

[gonzalu]

I can't even imagine what is going through the mind of those pilots ... I know I would be seriously TRYING to contain my rear end instead of trying to get out of whatever condition the plane was in. They looked like they were trying to power through it? OMG that is just insane sick video :(

I wonder how heavy she was... it looks very very fast drop as if she was loaded. Then also the fuel load.. how far were they going?

[mirrodie]

Just aweful video. Neverthought I'd see a parge as large as that jsut stop in midair and almost stand on its tail.

RIP

Just shocking and RIP to those onboard.

[gonzalu]

I keep playing back over and over... from the moment it stalls until it hits the ground, it TERRIFIES me. I get chills... Someone just told me on FB that they believe the load shifted in the cargo hold enough to cause an unbalance. Combine it with the necessary steep takeoff angles due to security and you have a formula for disaster...

[megatop412]

I just watched the video on youtube and felt sick watching them struggling with it, and it just hanging there for a few seconds. If nothing else, this footage can serve as a training video for the consequences of improperly tying cargo down(if that is what really happened, it does look an awful lot like it was).

That said, there are many tragic air crash clips on youtube which depict crews meeting a violent end that are not taken down. I don't see what makes this clip so different that it should be pulled.

[LGA777]

I first saw the video this morning and is heartbreaking and very hard to watch. As someone who has witnessed two accidents actually happen, 1 fatal (US 405, the F-28 at LGA) in 1992 and 1 non fatal (DL 554 MD88 at LGA in 1996) it certainly brings back bad memories. With the F-28 the fireball I saw I would estimate was about 8 stories high and though not as intense as what we all saw today it still reminded me of it. One small bright spot, it does appear there were 7 onboard not the original 8 that was reported. From what I understand, it was 5 pilots, a mechanic and a loadmaster, the latter two being common on Charter flights of US carriers both Freighters and Passenger aircraft operating for the military At least they died doing what they loved and serving their country but man what a horrific way for life to end. I understand National is a very tight nit family like company I am sure many are having difficulty dealing with this.

RIP to the Crew of N949CA

LGA777

[CX777]

... Someone just told me on FB that they believe the load shifted in the cargo hold enough to cause an unbalance. Combine it with the necessary steep takeoff angles due to security and you have a formula for disaster...

Isn't usually normal AOA about 18-23' for take-offs? That looks like 35-40' range and the pressure on the loads must be tremendous. What a tragic chain of events. R.I.P. God Bless.

Raj

[Delta777LR]

I first saw the video this morning and is heartbreaking and very hard to watch. As someone who has witnessed two accidents actually happen, 1 fatal (US 405, the F-28 at LGA) in 1992 and 1 non fatal (DL 554 MD88 at LGA in 1996) it certainly brings back bad memories. With the F-28 the fireball I saw I would estimate was about 8 stories high and though not as intense as what we all saw today it still reminded me of it. One small bright spot, it does appear there were 7 onboard not the original 8 that was reported. From what I understand, it was 5 pilots, a mechanic and a loadmaster, the latter two being common on Charter flights of US carriers both Freighters and Passenger aircraft operating for the military At least they died doing what they loved and serving their country but man what a horrific way for life to end. I understand National is a very tight nit family like company I am sure many are having difficulty dealing with this.

RIP to the Crew of N949CA

LGA777

I thought the USAir 405 crash was due to icing. That DL MD-88 incident i remembered too. Also dont forget about the Air Ontario F-28 crash in 1989, that was similar to US405 also not to mention that there was I believe a crash that had to do with weight balance in 12/12/85 at Gander involving a DC-8 which i think was Arrow Air carrying American Soldiers aboard, that flight also stalled just after take off from Gander.

The video of N949CA was very disbelief, just watching how it stalled at 1200ft and dippping down to the ground like that, I watched it a few times with a friend of mine today and she could not believe how bad that was. RIP to those aboard N949CA. God be with them

[snydersnapshots]

I can't even imagine what is going through the mind of those pilots ... I know I would be seriously TRYING to contain my rear end instead of trying to get out of whatever condition the plane was in. They looked like they were trying to power through it? OMG that is just insane sick video :(

In that situation, your rear-end would be the LEAST of your worries. You would be just happier than hell to have the opportunity to clean out that seat cushion and throw away your underwear.

My guess is that the guys on the controls were doing everything they could to get that airplane flying again. I suspect the columns were pushed as far forward as they could and the power levers were fire walled. They probably weren't hearing anything, and their field of vision was probably fixed on the attitude and airspeed indicators. I'm sure they fought as hard as they could until the very end.

For a very interesting discussion on what happens to your body during periods of high stress I highly recommend the books "On Combat" by David Grossman, and "Extreme Fear" by Jeff Wise (which I just finished reading today). Both have very interesting analyses of what happens to your body physiologically during periods of high stress. Grossman gives specifics as to what happens at different heart-rate levels--auditory exclusion, loss of fine motor skills beginning about 140 beats/minute, tunnel vision, and at 180 bpm, let's just say, s#%t happens and there's nothing you can do to stop it. It's your system literally "lightening the load" so you can run faster.


I wonder how heavy she was... it looks very very fast drop as if she was loaded. Then also the fuel load.. how far were they going?

Stalling from a pitch angle that high, it wouldn't matter if it was loaded or not...the drop would look fast regardless.

[snydersnapshots]

Isn't usually normal AOA about 18-23' for take-offs? That looks like 35-40' range and the pressure on the loads must be tremendous. What a tragic chain of events. R.I.P. God Bless.

Raj

I think you're confusing pitch attitude with angle of attack...definitely apples and oranges. The pitch attitude would differ depending on weight--the heavier the airplane the lower the pitch attitude on the initial climb. I know with a light 757-200 and a full-power takeoff, a pitch of 20-25 degrees is not unreasonable. A heavy 757-300 and 10-15 is about right. We don't have a true AOA gauge like a fighter does, but I'm guessing the AOA in both scenarios is about the same, while the pitch attitude is very different.

I'm not familiar enough with the 747 series to tell you what a normal takeoff pitch would be. Also, it sounds like they have a special departure, similar to Orange county (although for high-speed lead abatement, not noise abatement), where they pitch up a little higher than normal.

[Derf]

Forty+ years ago a Navy C-2 stalled and crashed after launching from USS Ranger (CVA-61). Cargo shift was blamed for that accident and if you compare the video with the Bagram crash they're very similar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OlDmMwI9cik

[Nick]

From my time at Bagram I can tell you that the take-off angle I witnessed was steeper than I was used to back home.

[727C47]

yeah,we are always in a hurry to leave, but that had zero to do with what happened.

[gonzalu]

Just got a bit more information in my inbox today that may or may not be known already. This is unverified:

N949CA Boeing 747-428BCF SN: 25630 LN:960

Prior to the actual crash the crew called cargo shift on the radio. They had 20-40k freight inside on takeoff that at least one piece shifted back with nothing to stop it from crashing into the bulk head. If they had more altitude they could have recovered. An ugly load with an ugly result. May this crew rest in piece.

1. National Flight NCR102 was en route to Dubai from Camp Bastian and had stopped to refuel at Bagram Air Base.
2. The cargo contained within the aircraft was properly loaded and secured, and had passed all necessary inspections prior to departing Camp Bastian.
3. The aircraft landed safely and uneventfully in Bagram.
4. No additional cargo or personnel was added during the stop in Bagram, and the aircraft's cargo was again inspected prior to departure.

[PhilDernerJr]

Those facts listed have already been verified.

The aircraft had 5 vehicles onboard that weight 28,000 pounds EACH. So even one coming loose and sliding all the way back...ouch.

Such an awful crash, and is the fear of every military charter loadmaster around.

[USAF Pilot 07]

The FAA just released a SAFO (Safety Alert for Operators) advising operators of the potential safety impact of carrying and restraining heavy vehicle and special cargo loads.

While no certain cause has yet been attributed to this crash, it sure is interesting the FAA is all of a sudden concerned about carrying and restraining heavy cargo loads...

If I was able to upload the document (I have it saved on my HD) I would for those interested in reading it, but I don't see a function to be able to do so...

[yankees368]

You should be able to upload to Google Drive or DropBox and send a public link