Some Recent Effect Shots (HDR, Panorama, etc)

[captmjk16]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to show (and place up for critique) some of the effect shots I've been working on since school ended. I've seen some of your guy's masterful HDR work, so any critiques, tips and thoughts are greatly appreciated and then some. Panoramas have been my thing lately though, and I hope you guys like them. Thanks for looking! Pretty much everything here was compiled/worked on with PS CS5, which I know is far from idea for HDR especially, but I can't afford other software at this time. I've tried Photomatix trial with some success, but I'm still not really satisfied with the results.

First a few HDR shots:

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/AlluredeckHDRsp.jpg

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/h2ozonehdr1-1.jpg

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/hdrskyhawk.jpg

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/delta744term.jpg

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/PICT0465_tonemapped.jpg

And some panoramic shots

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/PTKpanorama.jpg

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/marinercozdeckpanosm.jpg

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/allsternpanocozsm.jpg

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/boardwalkpano1small.jpg

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/boardwalkpano2sm.jpg

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/allurelabadeepano2small.jpg

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/labadeepano1sm.jpg

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/labadeepano2sm.jpg

Again thanks for looking and for any criticism!

EDIT: Well it appears the horizontal panoramas have been compressed to fit in the forum layout, unfortunately takes away from the effect, but you can still get the general idea.

[wunaladreamin]

I'm doing a lot of creative experimentation with panoramics myself and I must say I am in love with the last two frames. So peaceful and inviting. Your nighttime HDR's are superb too Mark, though your pic of 757MK really didn't need that treatment. Well done!

[captmjk16]

I'm doing a lot of creative experimentation with panoramics myself and I must say I am in love with the last two frames. So peaceful and inviting. Your nighttime HDR's are superb too Mark, though your pic of 757MK really didn't need that treatment. Well done!

Thanks Kenny!

If you think they look good at that size you should see how they look at 12 feet wide! I think they're perhaps my best work that will never see paper. The HDRs were a result of some rare forethought on my part (brought the tripod on the ship for the very purpose of night HDR knowing I didn't have Maho Beach to fill 4 cards this time). A prime example of perfect missed opportunity: ended up basically taking part in a USCG rescue swimmer training exercise this past Friday, but left the camera at home for the weekend figuring there wouldn't be much flying out at the base... Stupid me, KC-135s, A-10s, and HH-65s all weekend and a showoff Herk driver who thought he was still flying F-15s or something.

As for the 7MK shot, I did it in both HDR and non HDR versions, and I too prefer the straight shot, just not enough clouds/grime to really make the HDR work.

[Derf]

OK, I will bite

I do not understand, what are you trying to accomplish with HDR?

I do not see much of a benefit in your images..... You can do almost the same thing with Shadow Highlight and a single shot. The reason I ask the question is not to be an a$$ but rather because Everyone I have spoken to has a very different idea on what an HDR is, How it is used, Why it is used.

[cancidas]

nice work on the panoramas... they're close to my fav types of photos to take just wish i knew how to actually shoot and stitch them together. how do you do it?

[captmjk16]

OK, I will bite

I do not understand, what are you trying to accomplish with HDR?

I do not see much of a benefit in your images..... You can do almost the same thing with Shadow Highlight and a single shot. The reason I ask the question is not to be an a$$ but rather because Everyone I have spoken to has a very different idea on what an HDR is, How it is used, Why it is used.

First off, thanks for looking and the reply.

Honestly I'm not entirely sure what I'm trying to accomplish, I'm more or less just messing around with settings and sliders till I see something I like.

The night shots of the ship I did intend on getting detail across a larger range than a single shot (seeing the things outside on deck exposed well along with the interior, company logo and the exhaust). I've seen a lot of tone mapped and high detail shots that really stand out to me as great, and I'm giving it my best shot to replicate those results myself. For example, the shot of the Viking Crown (first HDR shot) required multiple exposures because getting any detail in the deck chairs resulted in a massive overexposure of the crown and anchor, viking crown, and the lighting along the rail, same with the pool shot.

I agree that the Delta 744 and C172 didn't really come out very HDRish, but compared to the stock shots (I'll post them later when I get back to a reliable connection) there is a noticeable difference despite a more subtle effect. The ship shots the effect is more noticeable compared to single exposure shots, I guess I just try to replicate the somewhat dreamy and slightly over the top style of HDR/tonemapping.


nice work on the panoramas... they're close to my fav types of photos to take just wish i knew how to actually shoot and stitch them together. how do you do it?

Thanks! With these panoramas (and the others I've done) I essentially take a series of overlapping pictures (vertical orientation if I remember to in the heat of the moment for higher detail and larger finished images) at a constant exposure value. I then load them into CS5's (or CS2 if I'm at home) Automate-Photomerge tool and let it work its magic. The key is taking shots with enough overlap for Photoshop to detect similar detail in the edges of bordering images, I try to overlap about 1/4 to 1/5 of the edge of the frame as a rule of thumb. Another thing to consider is your position as it relates to the object and foreground, with any panorama there will be distortion around the edges/corners of the image, but proper planning and a good crop can help minimize it.

From there it's usually a simple crop and then performing the standard adjustments (Levels, Curves, etc). On some sets the automatic detection for image placement is less than ideal, this is where CS2 really comes in handy because there's a tool that allows you to place images manually into the panorama and letting the software do the actual merging. Any other questions just let me know, I'll do my best to explain/answer it.

[Derf]

This type of image is really what HDR is for...shooting into the sun you will not have enough dynamic range for the airplanes or the sun....the planes are almost a complete silhouette

http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/2007-Jones-Beach-Airshow/IMG4719/160239244_NekfW-M-3.jpg

Everyone has different ideas on what HDR is....This is my OPINION.....

take the above image and take mutable images to make this while looking into the sun!
http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/2007-Jones-Beach-Airshow/IMG557201/159181162_9WgnX-L-3.jpg


The over processed cartoony look is not HDR but the Tone Mapping that comes after the High Dynamic Range image is created.. There are TWO processes but most people do not understand that tonemapping is what give the crazy look.

http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/2007-Jones-Beach-Airshow/IMG2375697071727374/159106044_AyhKp-L-3.jpg


I have to go but I will try to stop back in this thread to help if possible. If you have any questions please ask... John K is probably the best
that I have seen with Processing without halo's. That is always a struggle with this type of Photo processing in tone mapping.

Thank you for the honest answers.... That was also the best answer!

[captmjk16]

Derf,

I agree 100% with your definition/idea/opinion of HDR in that sense, as that higher than standard dynamic range is exactly what it means. That said, I just personally prefer to see a bit more of an effect in my daytime HDR work, which is where the tonemapping comes in. It may not be not HDR per se as tonemapping is a separate effect, but it's my thoughts on where I'd like to see my "HDR" shots at. I respect your opinion 100% and love the shots you put up. As for night/low light HDR, I don't think the tone mapping is as much a part of the effect, as the proper exposure on multiple light levels in the shot take care of the effect in itself. Of course this is just my thought/opinion.

I'll be sure to get your guy's thoughts on anything else I crank out, as I certainly value the input and tips!

[Derf]

Now that I have a little time, I love the night use of the HDR on the "boat". At night, lights blow out easily (Obiously you know that, but I say this for others). Any night shots with a lightsource will usually benifit.

The Cessna..... I like your use of blurring the backround in photoshop but make sure that you keep the stick in the front of the airplane consistent. (SPLITTING HAIRS HERE) and the Use of the HDR here has already been debated....but it works about as good as a non HDR.

The 747, Not sure if it was hdr or not but I love the reflection on the bottom. Tone Mapping can amplify the reflection 10 fold if you set it correctly. My Sabre shot above shows that nicely. Your holding back the tone mapping is what I liked.... Well done

The Overcooked Smokestacks.... I do not like the over processed look. I does nothing for me. I do think that you should never limit yourself and you should try to use every style... I find that even tho I do not like the overcooked style it is amazing what it can do in a strong set of images. Your addition of the overcooked smoke stacks sets this set off! You know moderation and you have an eye sir.

Your first four panos.
The first is crooked.... If your using photoshop...use the ruler to draw a line from the horizon on the far left of image to the far right....with that line made with the ruler the go to rotate and select arbitary and click ok...It will level it for you.

Second Pano was fun stuff

third pano Your not leveling the tripod and that is why you had that bow... I SUCK AT LEVELING THE TRIPOD. You will see me guilty of this often and everyone should point and laugh at me when I do it.. Because I know better and still do it from time to time.

Fourth Pano HOLY ****! NAILED IT!

Fifth Pano???? I am not so sure. The shot is perfect as there is only one way to shoot it. The Restraint makes the shot

The Last three panos are just over the top.... I can not imagine any better... Look a little over saturated and it is perfect for the image.

The set together is great but most of the shots really did not need to be an HDR... You can for about half, lower the Contrast in you camera about 2 notches and then you can process it and get almost the same image. I am not saying that that was is better, I am just saying that it is another way.

The main reason for HDR is your night shots. Those were perfect but your set in total was strong and all the images complimented the set.
Supercritical Yes...You asked and this is how we learn. I hope others on the forum HOP IN HERE and tell me where I am full of it...that is how I learn!

HELP?

[captmjk16]

Wow, where do I start, what a nice reply man, detailed feedback is always welcome!

First, here's the proper version of the 172 shot from a slightly different angle. I did not butcher this one with tonemapping, and it appears I also neglected to blur out the other 172. The only real reason I tried tonemapping the shot in the first place was to try and bring out a bit more contrast/detail in the snow, but it clearly failed.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/25c172.jpg

I'm going to try mapping the 744 shot and I'll put it up when I'm done.

EDIT: Here they are. One is a more straight HDR enhancement, the other is the more cartoonish tonemapped one (which came out a lot grainier than I had expected based on the preview in photomatix). I think it is a case where I prefer less tonemapping with a day shot, the famous DTW window dots certainly didn't help at all. I'm not sure if my eyes are going, been staring at too many computer screens/sunny tennis courts today, but it appears that there's a halo near one of the intersections of the window frames and near the jetway. What adjustment slider would best handle this? I've tried a few of the highlight tabs but wasn't able to eliminate it.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/delta744term_tonemapped1.jpg

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/delta744term_tonemapped.jpg

Glad you understand the shot up on deck even if it's not your bag.

I think I may have uploaded a raw (unfinished) version of the control tower panorama and I'll look into it. I may be wrong though as I remember it having a slightly unbalanced appearance as I have a bit more detail on the left side of the field than the right (there was a construction project going on next to the tower and I tried to avoid it as much as possible.

Thanks for the compliments on the second, 4th, and the last 3 panos.

As for the 3rd pano, I'm sure the "tripod" wasn't 100% level as I was not using one lol. I had just finished up a surf session when the Carnival ship pulled in and I just went ahead and took a quick sweep of shots before heading to lunch #2. I think the effect is amplified by the shape and position of the ship and pier in that port. My obsession with eliminating some of the stage rigging that was crossing the bottom of the shot probably resulted in the angle suffering a bit.

Here's one more HDR with some slight tonemapping that I just re-did.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/aqt_mapped.jpg

And a few of my favorite panoramas that don't involve aircraft or seagoing vessels. The second one is actually two separate panoramas that did not mesh well in CS5 that I was able to match up in CS2.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/bighouse50bandpanocropsm.jpg

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/bighousefullcornerpanosm.jpg

Again, thanks for the feedback, it means a lot to have support/help/constructive criticism.

[lijk604]

To get rid of the halo's in Photomatix, try dialing back on the strength slider a bit. Usually a drop of 10% can help there. You can also try upping the smoothing sliders as well (overall & highlight smoothing) that seems to help quite a bit. Sometimes though if you have a really harsh clash (ex: Bright sun & black window frames) you may not be able to clear all the halos up.

I like what you are trying to do, the only nit I have (and this is my preference, remember) is that you have to watch your whites. Photomatix amplifies any dirt in your photos. I'm sure the smokestacks had some dirt on them but did not look as dingy as the photo you have posted. You can see it in the Delta 747 photos as well. The first post, you do not see most of the dirt near the passenger windows, your second post really brings that out. If that's the look you want, that's great. Remember, this is just my 2 cents here. Again, the smoothing sliders can help dial back some of the amplified crap.

One thing you might try, and it should not have too big of an effect on your final output. Is to run a noise reduction program on your files BEFORE you export them to Photomatix. I send my photos from Lightroom to Photoshop, use Topaz Denoise on them and have them re-imported into my LR catalog. From there I export them to Photomatix, the end result is a much cleaner image.

Here is an example from a three shot handheld sequence I shot last summer:
http://www.jklosphotography.com/Photography/HDR-Photos/HDR-Photos1/i-DcSJS3Z/0/XL/Clarke-Walker-Building-HDR-XL.jpg

[gonzalu]

...worth noting is that Tone Mapping in Photomatix uses local adjustments a lot. Specially local contrast on a per pixel level, not just on a per area or boundary level. This really enhances details and minimize halos, but also enhances noise tremendously.

For super contrasty scenes like inside of a room with windows facing a bright exterior, you will need 5 exposure steps not three ... so -3 and +3 stops difference and the in betweens :-) I aim to get my shadows in the lightest overexposed image to be a neutral gray or in the midtones.

When in doubt, take more brackets if you can. :tongue:

[Derf]

Your new Cessna shot is much better but I do like the blurred backround better on the old shot....Yea...that is why I am getting divorced!

<RANT>
The 747... I do not like this shot. I think it is the window frames with those large artsy arcs in front of the 747. My eye is not drawn to the 747 (And being an airplane freak on an aviation website...I think you owe us all an apology for doing that to us)

Yes I am done being nice! ;)

The first 747 shot in your last post has Halo's all over the place... Look over the cockpit of the 74 in the sky...very dark
The sky next to every bar in the window has the sky lighter next to it....Look in the middle of all the squares where there is sky...it is dark in the middle. You have halo's, there just so big it blends a little into the image.

Your second shot has a cool Delta 744 in it with the best possible angle you can get on a 74 with HUGE BARS RUINING THE AIRCRAFT PICTURE... shame on you

(Disclaimer - All views that are expressed represent the repressed aggression solely of Frederick Miller and do not reflect the views of any other forum members or NYCAviation.com. All views by Frederick will probably be wrong and should be treated by playing possum and playing dead until Fred goes away)
<\RANT>

Your new HDR was too rich for my flavor


Seriously... Those Panos in the stadium is pretty bad as$
(Please see disclaimer above)

[captmjk16]

Thanks for the tips again guys, I'll definitely try tweaking the strength and shadows/highlights when I get around to it. As for many stops/EVs, I've been guilty of taking 13 and 15 pictures for a single HDR image at times, especially for night stuff.

I know I've got the blurred version of that 172 on the external hard drive somewhere, just a matter of me not being a lazy a$$ and looking for em.

I can understand why you don't like the shot Fred, it's one of my rare instances of being more artsy. The famous DTW dots really ruined my shots that I took with my lens right up next to the glass. I remember seeing a shot similar to it on a movie poster a few years back and wanted to get my own version of it. As such, I am officially apologizing for ruining the perfect view of the 744, though I want the airport authority to share blame for putting those damn dotted windows on in the first place lol!

The more I look at the new HDR the less I like the colors, I think I should have turned the temp and saturation down a bit overall even though it's not too far off of what it looks like in reality. I'll be revisiting that one soon for sure.

Glad you like the panos Fred, they got me on the field for the spring game, now I've gotta make that access stick for the regular season!

[captmjk16]

Well I was stuck away from civilization and internet service the past week and in between attempts to sink the R/c boat and waterski I messed around with some of last year's airshow pictures. I feel like I may have overcooked the tonemapping in a few, but overall I like the look on these ones. Please let me know what you guys think!

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/ptk18_tonemapped.jpg
http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/ptk15_tonemapped.jpg
http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/ptk14_tonemapped.jpg
http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg570/captmjk/11TOM46_tonemapped.jpg

[lijk604]

The gulfstream shots have way too much blue in them. After you tonemap, bring the image into Photoshop or LR and reduce the blue & cyan saturation.

[captmjk16]

I would tend to agree with that John, especially the first one. I guess I'm just too into blue (new name for the next JetBlue delivery? lol), but I've definitely got to tone it down in those ones (and probably the Albatross one too). Thanks for the look.