JetBlue Considering ISP as Barger Takes a Very Public Tour

[Matt Molnar]

Dave Barger took a very public tour of ISP today with Sen. Chuck Schumer and Islip Town Supervisor Tom Croci.

Barger said on Twitter that JetBlue is considering ISP and PVD, which he visited earlier this week.

Croci mentioned something about plans in the works to build a rail link to the LIRR in Ronkonkoma. Is that true or just hot air? I haven't heard anything about it.

http://www.news12.com/articleDetail.jsp?articleId=305620&position=1&news_type=news&region_name=LI&regionId=1

[NIKV69]

Rail link from the terminal to the station? LOL who is paying for that? Would probably be more cost effective to buy a few of those really nice shuttles and hire some drivers.

[steve1840]

I knew they would consider PVD sooner or later. Will be nice if they start service from PVD, both for added traffic when spotting, and so I don't have to travel to BDL to fly on them like this summer when I take them to MCO. It works out good there too as there are two empty gates from when AA terminated service to PVD that no one has filled. Just like at BDL, I think that jetBlue can do very well filling flights out of PVD.

[Art at ISP]

Personally I think that Barger came to ISP as a favor to Senator Screwme. I don't think there is a practical business reason to consider ISP service when ISP is right between JetBlue's 2 biggest stations (JFK and BOS). It would further dilute JFK in my opinion. With WN pulling back drastically, and just a sorry US operation left to augment that, I'd say that in the end they will admit that WN knows something and skip ISP...which is sad since I'd love to use ISP more!

[mirrodie]

A rail link between the terminal in the airports is complete bogus.

Nick is dead on the money. Use bus service. Or a people mover if you really want to build some something beneath runways

But a rail link would be useless since the railroad in the terminal are so close together. In fact the railroad and the terminal areprobably about one train length apart!! Think about that for a moment

[moose135]

But a rail link would be useless since the railroad in the terminal are so close together. In fact the railroad and the terminal areprobably about one train length apart!! Think about that for a moment
I'm thinking that would be an awfully long train! Looking at Google Earth, a straight line - crossing the runways - between the terminal and the LIRR station is about 1.3 miles. Wrapping a rail line around the airfield would put it closer to three miles.

[NIKV69]

I read Newsday this morning and now they said they are thinking about a 'walkway' from the station to the terminal wtf? LOL. How are you going to do that underground?

[hiss srq]

My first issue is the fact that you guys trust anything Newsday says.

[Matt Molnar]

I suspect the town has no actual interest in improving ISP access for train riders, as it would encourage the masses from the city to mooch off their quiet airport and lower fares (at least on Southwest). They could set up a shuttle bus in a week if they wanted to, but they haven't. Maybe a few well placed donations to local pols from the taxi owners help to maintain the status quo, too.

[NIKV69]

My first issue is the fact that you guys trust anything Newsday says.

What Newsday is saying is irrelevant. Art was spot on here. In this business climate B6 getting gates at ISP is a severe longshot. Since snowbirding is the only lucrative routes people will just go to JFK. Personally I think B6 did this as a favor to Schumer as well.

As many have said ISP is in a perpetual state of going nowhere. Nobody will let the runways be lengthened and what you see now is what you get. WN and some regionals.

[hiss srq]

I love that word, snowbirding. LOL I'm going to put a feather in my hat since I am a snowbird.

[moose135]

My first issue is the fact that you guys trust anything Newsday says.
As opposed to a random person on a message forum...

[hiss srq]

I'm not just an aviation enthusist in terms of these things. That's how I am going to leave this conversation.

[Ari707]

isn't there already bus service from the station to the airport now?

[bluejuice]

I believe there ia or was a shuttle between the LIRR and Islip. The cost was $5.00. ISP was touting it a while ago as the greatest thing since sliced bread. What the article failed to mention, was the proposed plan for the new LIRR station complex which could connect to a new terminal on the North side of the field. If this is the case we wont see either because of LI's economy and NIMBY;s.

[T-Bird76]

Nick and Mario...funds have already been established by NYS to develope a transportation hub between the Ronkonkoma LIRR station and ISP.

[mirrodie]

Funds set aside or not, it's ridiculous. It's not as if if they build it they will come. There is no hub needed. I mean look at the geography, the airport and the train station are relatively close apart you don't need a rail link to make it happen.

[T-Bird76]

Funds set aside or not, it's ridiculous. It's not as if if they build it they will come. There is no hub needed. I mean look at the geography, the airport and the train station are relatively close apart you don't need a rail link to make it happen.

There's more then a rail link, the entire area around the LIRR station is getting a massive facelift...which is sorely needed. YOu get off the train now and it looks like you're in Compton...

[mirrodie]

It was redone in beautiful South American hardwood back in about 1996 when I worked for the railroad. I worked at station and remember it vividly. And all went to hell in less than a decade. And they proposed a link way back then....

[NIKV69]

Building anything joining ISP and the station is a complete waste of money. Give me a break. B6 is not coming anytime soon. Even if they did snowbirds are not going to take a train to Ronkonkoma. FAIL

[mirrodie]

I don't claim to know much more about it than this: Another issue with rail link is that the LIRR mainline is singletrack from Pinelawn all the way out to Ronkonkoma. It's not reliable. All you need is one train to breakdown and the system fails.

Before you can even have a hub, you have to have reliable rail service. Port Washington, Babylon, even Long Beach has double track all the way up to their terminuses. But the mainline is asingle track for most of the way and all you need is one dead train from anywhere between Farmingdale actually in Ronkonkoma. One dead train will kill a flight.

That's why when I have anyone asking me whether or not they should take the air train from Jamaica to JFK, I tell them take any diesel train out of babylon into Jamaica. That is reliable. Best service on the LIRR.


Moron point until you get that main line to have a redundant system like – sets of tracks, a hub is doomed to fail

[Matt Molnar]

Good point, Mario.

I'm sure there are stats somewhere on how many people get to ISP via LIRR. I'm guessing it's not a whole lot but I'd love to see them.

[Art at ISP]

Despite the likelihood of a rail link, there is just not enough demand for more airline service from ISP, especially when it appears B6 would serve markets already served by WN, which are leisure markets to Florida and points south. I don't think there is enough Caribbean traffic to justify a presence there, and absent an ICE inspection point at ISP, they could only serve locations offering pre-clearance.

I think it is very telling that WN is pulling back significantly--with perhaps more to come. I'd hate to think of US as the only choice out of ISP, but it could happen I guess....

For what it's worth, I also suggested to my friends at UA/CO that they consider Q400 service to IAD and/or CLE, but I doubt that will happen either.

In a perfect world, we'd have flights to hubs in IAD, ORD and ATL.....which have been done before, but with the right economics might work now.....but it just ain't gonna happen.

[NIKV69]

Despite the likelihood of a rail link, there is just not enough demand for more airline service from ISP, especially when it appears B6 would serve markets already served by WN, which are leisure markets to Florida and points south. I don't think there is enough Caribbean traffic to justify a presence there, and absent an ICE inspection point at ISP, they could only serve locations offering pre-clearance.

I think it is very telling that WN is pulling back significantly--with perhaps more to come. I'd hate to think of US as the only choice out of ISP, but it could happen I guess....

For what it's worth, I also suggested to my friends at UA/CO that they consider Q400 service to IAD and/or CLE, but I doubt that will happen either.

In a perfect world, we'd have flights to hubs in IAD, ORD and ATL.....which have been done before, but with the right economics might work now.....but it just ain't gonna happen.

This sums it up. If routes like ISP-LAS couldn't even last I hardly see how B6 can make any go at ISP. Unless it's a sno bird route 3 months a year. Which isn't worth it or the building of any rail link. As we have beaten this horse to death many times. If you can't make the airport and runways bigger (which they can't) the service you see now is what you will have.

[mirrodie]

True what Art says.....besides rail service, the flight services offered out of ISP are not great and waning, it seems.

So building a rail link aint going to make it any better.

[T-Bird76]

This sums it up. If routes like ISP-LAS couldn't even last I hardly see how B6 can make any go at ISP. Unless it's a sno bird route 3 months a year. Which isn't worth it or the building of any rail link. As we have beaten this horse to death many times. If you can't make the airport and runways bigger (which they can't) the service you see now is what you will have.

Nick the size of the runway at ISP has nothing to do with the service that is offered there... The runway length is the same as LGA and can accomodate the same type of aircraft. The only reason WN has not pulled up shop is because they'll have to report the cost of the terminal as a one time loss on their balance sheet. The issue at ISP has and still is cost..its not a cheap airport for airlines to operate out of.

[hiss srq]

Tommy, you are on the correct trail. There is not a substantial year round market to support the type of operation that would justify an airline really digging into ISP. I think the best we can really expect ISP to ever be is something between Long Islands version Sarasota. Large but seasonal market type flying with mid to low yeild on all but a few markets.