JetBlue and American Could Face Millions in Fines Over Snowtober-Stranded Flights: Fi

[NYCA News]

NYCAviation:

JetBlue and American Could Face Millions in Fines Over Snowtober-Stranded Flights: Final Call (http://nycaviation.com/2011/10/jetblue-and-american-could-face-millions-in-fines-over-snowtober-stranded-flights-final-call/)

Airlines could face big fines over flights stranded during the northeast snowstorm this past weekend. Plus, a Delta 747 suffers an uncontained engine failure, Fort Lauderdale's hilly new runway, and a JetBlue employee run over by a jetway.
[Click to Read Full Article (http://nycaviation.com/2011/10/jetblue-and-american-could-face-millions-in-fines-over-snowtober-stranded-flights-final-call/)]

[Zee71]

If I were the airlines, I would pass the bill over to the folks at Bradley Airport. It seems to me they were unprepared, unequipped for this, and didn't hornor the airline requests. Additionally, from my understanding there is no passenger bill of rights when it comes to airports in general. They'll fine the airlines, but when it comes to airports mishandlings or cause of delays, the airports aren't fined, so you the passenger are screwed. So what wrong with this picture???

[Derf]

how prepared can you be with a major snowstorm...the only clear answer is divert before getting into 2 feet of snow. Tell me an airline is not going to realize that there is going to be a problem! Tugs can not easily push an aircraft in 2 feet of snow... If they have gates at the airport, they need to manage their gates...If they do not have gates, they should have known it was snowing when they took off. I say, Let them fry, they will not make that mistake again and listening to passengers gripe at the departure airport would suck, but cost them a lot less!

[hiss srq]

It's a tad more complex about that.

[NIKV69]

This is all semantics. Once the aircraft is in a position to need help it has to be helped. I think the airports shoulder most of the blame. They get the rent, landing fees etc. Have a contingency plan to get the people off and into the terminal in case of. It's not that hard. You would think after the Expressjet incident in Minnesota this wouldn't happen. It's a disgrace.

[cancidas]

considering JBU was part of the reason the whole passenger bill of rights laws came to be this is really an embarrassment. i would not be surprised if heads will roll....

[Zee71]

Definitely some heads at Bradley for Jet Blue should roll. In addition, it's not the first time for Bradley to have a major snow storm. I know it's was sort of out of the blue, but the airport should have contingency plans for the unexpected (just like the Gov't had for Katrina!............Right!).

[moose135]

There will be a million reasons why they couldn't get assistance once they were on the ground, but I wonder why they were in that situation in the first place. You can't get into EWR, so you divert to an airport that is in the direct path of the worst of the storm? How is that good planning?

[NIKV69]

There will be a million reasons why they couldn't get assistance once they were on the ground, but I wonder why they were in that situation in the first place. You can't get into EWR, so you divert to an airport that is in the direct path of the worst of the storm? How is that good planning?

ACY and PHL come to mind. Once wheels are down crying over spilled milk doesn't help matters after 7 hours with a paraplegic, diabetic, no bathrooms and people probably ready to kill each other. Not to mention the food and water situation. Being right next to the terminal get someone to get airstairs and get them off the plane. Can you imagine B6's or the airports problem if someone had a major medical issue? This isn't even a debate. I think even in a blinding snowstorm anyone would rather walk even a little distance to get off a plane rather than sit on it with no facilities for that period of time.

[steve1840]

This is all semantics. Once the aircraft is in a position to need help it has to be helped. I think the airports shoulder most of the blame. They get the rent, landing fees etc. Have a contingency plan to get the people off and into the terminal in case of. It's not that hard. You would think after the Expressjet incident in Minnesota this wouldn't happen. It's a disgrace.


Definitely some heads at Bradley for Jet Blue should roll. In addition, it's not the first time for Bradley to have a major snow storm. I know it's was sort of out of the blue, but the airport should have contingency plans for the unexpected (just like the Gov't had for Katrina!............Right!).

I agree. Yes, this was a "freak" snowstorm, but its not like the news wasn't talking about it and predicting it two, three, four days in advance. Bradley should never have been a diversion point for these A/C being right in teh path of the worst part of the storm. Please excuse my ignorance in this part, but I do not know exactly how the whole diversion procedure goes, but doesn't an airport (int this case BDL) have the choice to say "no we cannot take diversions"?

And I agree alsowith you Nick, that they could have grought over the airstairs and deplained that way. After all, isn't that how people got off planes before the jetways were invented??

[rkfast]

I dont understand airport ops, but Im sorry....I see ZERO reason why the airport or airline cant get a truck to plow a quick path to the aircraft and then get airstairs and a shuttle bus over to the plane to get the people off and into the terminal. Even if its an overseas flight and there are customs issues to deal with...bring the passengers into a secure spot in the airport. Just makes no sense. If I was on one of those planes, I dont know how I would remain calm.

[Matt Molnar]

Steven Slater would have saved the day.

[hiss srq]

deleted

[PhilDernerJr]

Hiss is actually fair in saying that none of us know the conditions at the airport that led to this situation.

BDL is a popular alternate for the NYC area, among others. When planes divert due to weather, it bottlenecks planes into the few available airports. BDL received at least 15 diversions, if not more, and in bad weather, conditions are rough to accommodate so many planes at an airfield that is not used to that many. BLl is used to prop planes and some midsize aircraft, then to suddenly receive over a thousand passengers in the bad weather, then to have the airfield lose power.... how is that JetBlue's fault?

The airline needs to plan alternates that can handle their aircraft in all respects, but the truth is that when it hits the fan, your priority in those situations is to get the plane on the ground safely FIRST, then worry about the challenges on the ground. The weather that hit was worse than expected and arrived several hours earlier than forecast, and as terrible as being stuck on a plane for 7 hours is, sometimes it is MUCH safer than possibly falling down airstairs or being stuck in an airport terminal with no power with no space to accommodate 1,500 additional people.

Not to single out Nick, but do you know if the weather at PHL and ACY were legal? PHL had planes diverting away too, and I doubt ACY would have handled the same amount of aircraft in the same fashion.

Sometimes bad things happen and there is just no one to blame except bad luck. No one that knows all the details about that flight and their particular challenges (which I myself don't) can fairly make a judgement call.

[NIKV69]

Anyone with a ounce of sense knows that 3 hours is more than enough time for either the airline or airport to have acted. B6 has dropped the ball badly in this type of situation twice and what is worse is that after the Valentine disaster B6 should have taken precautions to see it never does again. Well guess not. The money B6 owes is a small price to pay because they will probably be sued and rightly so.

This isn't rocket science. It's basic customer service and logistics for not just B6 but the airport as well but I can't for the life of me understand how a company like B6 will allow this to happen.

It's total, epic, biblical fail. Twice.


Not to single out Nick, but do you know if the weather at PHL and ACY were legal? PHL had planes diverting away too, and I doubt ACY would have handled the same amount of aircraft in the same fashion.


What does that matter? It's like saying that someone who is bleeding from a gunshot wound should have never been shot while he lays there bleeding. You may have a great point but let us get him to the hospital and talk about what we can't undo later? Whatever the case of the diversion it's done and can't be undone. We know have a bunch of people in a very small, stuffy low air quality area with little or no food and water and overflowing bathrooms. Some may have special medical needs. Can we do something to get them off? Especially when it won't take much effort and argue about why this happened later?


sometimes it is MUCH safer than possibly falling down airstairs or being stuck in an airport terminal with no power with no space to accommodate 1,500 additional people.

As opposed to the fuselage of a A320? Power or not after you have passed the 3 hour window and if bathrooms are starting to fail anywhere is better. As for climbing down airstairs it should be part of any contigency plan that an airport or airline has. We train fire and and rescue to save people in incidents why can't we have a plan that gets people off an aircraft and safely on the ground and into a terminal? It's boggles the mind.

[PhilDernerJr]

Honestly, Nick, you can of course have an opinion, but it wouldn't be a fair one without all the knowledge. And 3 hours in certain conditions may NOT be enough. It could be hours for the plane to even have a place for the airport to park it, then to wait for ground crews while they handle 20 other planes in the snow with minimal equipment and functionality.

Is it terrible? Of course. But until/unless I know more, I simply can't cast blame anywhere.

[PhilDernerJr]

What does that matter? It's like saying that someone who is bleeding from a gunshot wound should have never been shot while he lays there bleeding. You may have a great point but let us get him to the hospital and talk about what we can't undo later? Whatever the case of the diversion it's done and can't be undone. We know have a bunch of people in a very small, stuffy low air quality area with little or no food and water and overflowing bathrooms. Some may have special medical needs. Can we do something to get them off? Especially when it won't take much effort and argue about why this happened later?

Because you can't legally land at a place that doesn't have legal weather. Those airports aren't even an OPTION. Like the 3-hour rule, the legal weather is law as well.


As for climbing down airstairs it should be part of any contigency plan that an airport or airline has. We train fire and and rescue to save people in incidents why can't we have a plan that gets people off an aircraft and safely on the ground and into a terminal? It's boggles the mind.

You can't compare filled lavs to emergency situations, but yes, most airports can accommodate a plane or two. But you're talking about 20 planes. In snow. With no power. I'll bet that ground equipment even ran out of gas and couldn't service other planes for a while. What could they do if that was the case? You're making a ton of assumptions.

[mirrodie]

As Phil noted, and that so appropriately, while I may have an opinion, I won't play armchair anthropologist on the matter.

That said, I feel the same as Gotham.....that being, I've been saying for a while that its only a matter of time before there is mutiny onboard and someone pulls a Slater, blows the slide and you seen a line of passengers dropping their drawers on the tarmac.

[Gerard]

I've been saying for a while that its only a matter of time before there is mutiny onboard and someone pulls a Slater, blows the slide and you seen a line of passengers dropping their drawers on the tarmac.

This happened on the LIRR during that recent "Lightning Strike" debacle that shut down the system. Fed up passengers bolted from stalled trains and started walking on the tracks.