Should the Cradle fall?

[mirrodie]

You know, I went to the Cradle of Aviation a few weeks ago and found it was a bit of a disappointment. I mean, it has been over 4 years since we were last there and it was all the same exact thing, no new additions or exhibits. They have hangars full of stuff and dont seem to understand they really need to rotate exhibits and show their full array of holdings.

As I write this, I know they had, at one point, a BA Concorde that used to sit atop the Times Square Brewery in Times Square. Well, I am gathering some info now that implies the museum is looking to sell it, looking for over $100K for it.

Its been said its a money loser. Isnt it about time some thought be given to the content and making the museum better instead of pawning off stuff?

[gonzalu]

Let American Airpower Museum run it... or give all the holdings to Intrepid or to NE Air Museum...

[Tom_Turner]

I remember the El Al Boeing 707 nose section actually came from the Intrepid. But, like Mario indicated, when I went to the Cradle, it was not on display at that time. (I think they put it out for display later). I was disappointed as well, but there are some good aircraft there I have to say.

[PhilDernerJr]

To me, the Cradle is the best museum in our area, easily beating the Intrepid even. The Intrepid is overpriced and aside from the Concorde and SR-71 (just a trainer, mind you, not an actual Blackbird), is a bore. Not to mention that they have hardly ANY space exhibits and are vying for a Space Shuttle? Eh.

The Cradle has a lot of very impressive exhibits, my favorite being the ACTUAL lunar lander intended to be used for Apollo 18 (!!!!) and all kinds of true, legit space pieces. Their ride is a fun one, their WW2 stuff is great, and I especially like their coverage of NYC/Long Island aviation history. I have been there a few times and always walk out feeling impressed.

Maybe they have more resources but need more funding? As long as they don't rip a page out of the Intrepid handbook ($22 to get in and you still don't get Concorde access!), I think they are showing that they want people to actually be able to go in an enjoy everything that they have to offer.

I'd pick the Cradle of the Intrepid anyday.

End rant. Sorry.

[NIKV69]

Didn't they just lose the IMAX thing? That helped big time but I can't see them not being able to break even unless the economy really hurt them. Their prices are very reasonable in fact a little cheaper than the San Diego Air and Space Museum.

[Derf]

You know, I went to the Cradle of Aviation a few weeks ago and found it was a bit of a disappointment. I mean, it has been over 4 years since we were last there and it was all the same exact thing, no new additions or exhibits. They have hangars full of stuff and dont seem to understand they really need to rotate exhibits and show their full array of holdings.

As I write this, I know they had, at one point, a BA Concorde that used to sit atop the Times Square Brewery in Times Square. Well, I am gathering some info now that implies the museum is looking to sell it, looking for over $100K for it.

Its been said its a money loser. Isnt it about time some thought be given to the content and making the museum better instead of pawning off stuff?

The reason why the BA Concorde is not being shown is space. It is longer than the F-105 that is sitting in the hangar next to it!!! Why on earth would you want to display a British Model when you have the possibility of displaying a Long Island made aircraft? They wanted to put the Concorde as a gate guard at the road to get people to turn into the Cradle, but when the cost of the base was found to be about a million dollars, they figured that the money would be better spent on a real aircraft! Now they want 100K for a Model that would have cost 1MIL to mount.... That is a sound thinking as far as I am concerned.

The Cradle has volunteers like at the AAM and some actually help bolt museums. These are dedicated people who work everyday with out getting paid for the love of aviation. The next time you are at the Cradle, pull one aside and ask them your questions and I am sure you will be very happy with the answers you get back. Like most things in life, there is a good reason for everything. My friend was yelling about how a bag of potato chips is all air...He is paying for air! He was so upset until I told him, without the air, in shipping all the chips would be crushed and broken and it is only to make sure that his chips are big and mainly unbroken. Go ask questions, it is not the big mismanaged pile of junk most people think it is.




Let American Airpower Museum run it... or give all the holdings to Intrepid or to NE Air Museum...
The AAM loves both the Cradle and the Intrepid, They are different kind of Museums. The main difference is the AAM never gets tiring as they use their equipment in low passes and Banana passes so it makes it a little more fun in the summer!


I remember the El Al Boeing 707 nose section actually came from the Intrepid. But, like Mario indicated, when I went to the Cradle, it was not on display at that time. (I think they put it out for display later). I was disappointed as well, but there are some good aircraft there I have to say.

The 707 took a while to display for a good reason.

1. The cockpit was not intact. Many instrument were missing and it needed work. If you look really close you will see that some are paper and I am sure they are slowing replacing them as real ones are found or as funds become available.
2. They told that by law they needed to have a wheelchair lift purchased before it was allowed to be shown. They had to spend allot more on the display than they wanted and did not have a choice becuase of the NYState laws about this.
http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Cradle-of-Aviation/IMG450678/416605074_x5qXp-M-1.jpg
http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Cradle-of-Aviation/IMG447678/416604546_UJ8gn-M-1.jpg


To me, the Cradle is the best museum in our area, easily beating the Intrepid even. The Intrepid is overpriced and aside from the Concorde and SR-71 (just a trainer, mind you, not an actual Blackbird), is a bore. Not to mention that they have hardly ANY space exhibits and are vying for a Space Shuttle? Eh.

The Cradle has a lot of very impressive exhibits, my favorite being the ACTUAL lunar lander intended to be used for Apollo 18 (!!!!) and all kinds of true, legit space pieces. Their ride is a fun one, their WW2 stuff is great, and I especially like their coverage of NYC/Long Island aviation history. I have been there a few times and always walk out feeling impressed.

Maybe they have more resources but need more funding? As long as they don't rip a page out of the Intrepid handbook ($22 to get in and you still don't get Concorde access!), I think they are showing that they want people to actually be able to go in an enjoy everything that they have to offer.

I'd pick the Cradle of the Intrepid anyday.

End rant. Sorry.

I agree Phil, I do like them all! The Cradle has the oldest #3 Tomcat
http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Cradle-of-Aviation/IMG445567/416603999_iyrxh-M-1.jpg
One of 3 A-6F's that were made
http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Cradle-of-Aviation/IMG44888990/416604729_sTGyn-M-1.jpg

and as you said, the actual lunar lander
http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Cradle-of-Aviation/IMG47181920/416610470_8D2m5-M-1.jpg

and trainers
http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Cradle-of-Aviation/IMG474234/416611066_wybpr-M-1.jpg

[megatop412]

Been there twice and never understood the lack of visitors. What a great musuem the Cradle is. Sadly, it will most likely close in the next 10 years because society is more invested in hearing what Snooki has to say(recent story of Rutgers paying her to speak, to continue the Jersey Shore references)

[PhilDernerJr]

My only complaint is that the volunteer staff wouldn't leave me/us alone during visits. I love getting questions answered, but they follow you around and tell you stuff you didn't ask.

[mirrodie]

The Intrepid is overpriced and aside from the Concorde and SR-71 (just a trainer, mind you, not an actual Blackbird), is a bore. Not to mention that they have hardly ANY space exhibits and are vying for a Space Shuttle? Eh.

I especially like their coverage of NYC/Long Island aviation history. I have been there a few times and always walk out feeling impressed.


-Phil, Intrepid can and should charge it. They are paying NY rent and have MUCH more potential for visitors than Cradle would, largely b/ of tourism. I am 50/50 on their shuttle acquisition thoughts. GREAT visibility but hardly the right place. Then again, Sydney hosed the Russian Buran for a while.(do they still?)


Didn't they just lose the IMAX thing?

-THat is hte first I am hearing. What the story there?


a)The reason why the BA Concorde is not being shown is space.

b)Why on earth would you want to display a British Model when you have the possibility of displaying a Long Island made aircraft?

c)Now they want 100K for a Model that would have cost 1MIL to mount.... That is a sound thinking as far as I am concerned.

d)The next time you are at the Cradle, pull one aside and ask them your questions and I am sure you will be very happy with the answers you get back. .. Go ask questions, it is not the big mismanaged pile of junk most people think it is.

a)Fred, I understand that space is an issue which is why I indicated rotating exhibits. That is how you keep thing fresh and it gives the museum potential for renewed interest. Been there 3 times and its now quite boring.
b)see above. If all you are going to show is the same a/c all the time, what new draw is there?
c)Sure its sound thinking yet their are other answers. I am sure if you get a few day laborers and a half ass architect student out of Farmingdale, it could cost less than $100K to implement. (Yes, go back and re-read that sentence.) Sorry but its the same old BS, politics and red tape.
d) The people are nice, I agree. But I can only conjure up so many questions based on the same models seen over and over.


Been there twice and never understood the lack of visitors. What a great musuem the Cradle is. Sadly, it will most likely close in the next 10 years because society is more invested in hearing what Snooki has to say(recent story of Rutgers paying her to speak, to continue the Jersey Shore references)

Megatop, I do agree. More could be done. With Roosevelt field mall right there, so much PR and marketing could be done to promote the museum. But if once need to draw fresh blood(new visitors), perhaps change it up a bit....

[Fighting_falcon_51]

The museum would really have a lot of publicity if that lighthouse plan went into motion.

[Gerard]

As I write this, I know they had, at one point, a BA Concorde that used to sit atop the Times Square Brewery in Times Square. Well, I am gathering some info now that implies the museum is looking to sell it, looking for over $100K for it.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/times_sq_supersonic_buy_plane_hQhduBTXAGGl1XOE3Cs8 UI?CMP=OTC-rss&FEEDNAME=

[moose135]

I remember visiting the "museum" when it was a handful of airplanes in a dark, dusty hangar. What they have created is nothing short of magnificent. I do wish more people were aware of this gem we have in our backyard.

The IMAX thing may be a license issue about the name - their web page is still ".../imax" but they refer to the "Giant Screen Dome Theater". They still have a full schedule of movies throughout April. And this weekend, April 16 & 17, they are holding a celebration for the Centennial of Naval Aviation (http://www.cradleofaviation.org/news.html#cent). I haven't been to the Cradle in a while, maybe I'll stop in this weekend.

[Derf]

Mario, I had never seen any aviation museum that rotating exhibits. It is a bad idea that would never work. Let's say speedbird from the forums goes on 3 trains and takes a cab from NYC to find out that they are not displaying his beloved fake Concorde and then goes on a 2 page rant about how he demanded that they give him a refund after looking for a model for 2 hours that was put away while they rotate to "keep it fresh". You will piss off those who visit.... Remember above how Tom Turner was "disappointed" that a piece that he went to see (and was never at the time announced it was on display) was not on display? I drove all the way to C.T. Because ther was a 707 Pan Am cockpit on display... That was on wheels and easy to move, If it was "rotated" in a back room or "hidden to get me to come back" to "keep it fresh". You would have seen a rant here that would have me banned by Phil! You have an exhibit or not... Period.

[PhilDernerJr]

$22 is way too expensive for general admission to a place that actually doesn't have much of anything. I don't care what their rent is, when you're awarded a piece like the Concorde it's not supposed to be treated like your own personal goldmine. People should be able to see it for a reasonable price. And they want a SHUTTLE?! Eff that. They'll charge $50 a head.

[mirrodie]

A bad idea that would never work. Not true considering so many other museums do the same.

Ah, so selling museum pieces is far better? you can knock the fake Concorde as much as if makes you feel good but it doesnt help the cause.

Its cuttings one's nose to spite its face. If pawning off this piece is a last ditch attempt to make some cash, that's great but it won't add to the overall bottom line nor the museum's future.

How do you fit a car that leaks oil? I guess the museum prefers adding oil as opposed to fixing the leak....

[Derf]

No aviation museum rotated its exhibits.... It is not like other museums that way.

I never said selling a museum piece was better, I do not knock the Concorde. I say that 1 mil for a Model is not worth it when you can have a couple of real aircraft for the price of displaying a model.... If they realized that they are never going to display it as it cost too much for the original idea, do you think they should let it rot in the hangar? It is not a last ditch attempt to make cash, it is realizing that you will never use it and it is taking up space....GARAGE SALE! You love the Concorde more than anybody I know and that does say allot. Let me put it this way. If they could mount a full sized copy of the F-14 tomcat or get two actual airframes for the same price from desert in Arizona for display, what would be the better idea. With the word Concorde in there you are blinded by your love. It is not a real airplane. This is not an airframe and can not fly and should not be considered a museum piece. I know you will disagree. I am not saying that you do not have a right to your opinion. I think your wrong. You think I am wrong. Nothing will change that. But I will still tip a beer with you any day....even tho your out of your mind :redface: :wink:

[mirrodie]

Fred, its not just with Concorde. Rotating exhibits.

While you think I am blinded by Concorde, its not so. in fact, I would love to see the other stuff they have there.


In fact, let's take my rotating exhibit a step further....

remember that aviation photo exhibit some of us were in and that you won? Our pics were at ISP for a while and were then supposed to go to Cradle. Where the hell are those photos? Why hasn't that exhibit been put up, promoted, etc? NO room, you say? What about that vast wasteland of a lobby, right under that Blue Angels jet, in the main entrance area? (Really, where are our photos, anyway?)

Just extrapolate that for a second...if they showcased those photos as an exhibit for a certain time frame, I know I would promote it on facebook to friends and fam, as would you, and on and on. That is free marketing to Cradle. But what imbeciles run this place?

We're not talking rocket science, Fred. You claim $1mill to mount a fake airframe and I guarantee in this day and age, with no jobs, you can get it done for less than 100K with a few illegals and an architect. Prove me otherwise. There is no sense arguing otherwise, the Mario is right on this one.

Same with the photo exhibit that never came to be.

Two things that could have happened, giving the museum more to showcase, the former example might cost a few bucks and the latter is free. Both add to more for the museum to show. And yet, neither comes to fruition. And why is that?

[moose135]

remember that aviation photo exhibit some of us were in and that you won? Our pics were at ISP for a while and were then supposed to go to Cradle. Where the hell are those photos? Why hasn't that exhibit been put up, promoted, etc? NO room, you say? What about that vast wasteland of a lobby, right under that Blue Angels jet, in the main entrance area? (Really, where are our photos, anyway?)
They are safe, waiting to be put on display at the Cradle. It's not a question of space, but of scheduling and obtaining appropriate (and sufficient) stands to set up the display.


...I guarantee in this day and age, with no jobs, you can get it done for less than 100K with a few illegals and an architect. Prove me otherwise. There is no sense arguing otherwise, the Mario is right on this one....
Really, Mario? Illegals? Think about it for a minute, Mario. You expect the Nassau County government (and really, any government agency) to hire illegal immigrants to build the display? Can you pass along whatever it is you are on, because it must be some good stuff...

[Derf]

Ummm Mario? What Else do they have? I have been in the hangar and there is nothing else that can go inside.... That is why the pieces are in the Hangar. It is to be restored.

There is an F-105 and that is in poor condition that is why it is in the hangar. It will get TLC that is needed and when done it will be displayed. Nothing else is put together! As per what you say about no jobs and taking 100K, Lots of people wish you were right, but your not. It gets grants by the goverment and needs to be approved by the state. That changes your 100K a bit. Do you really think that for 100k they would NOT put it up? It would flag people down and would help people to turn in to take pictures and visit the Museum. 1 MIL will not show the return needed to say, "Thats a good idea!" It has to be anchored so that if you get a 100+MPH hurricane it does not go airbore and kill anyone.

What can you move from Museum to museum? The Cradle has DONATED lots of things to the AAM that they could not use... Including an Nike Missile but that is just the tip of the iceberg. I have lots of info about what they have done and all three Museums help each other out.

If you would like I can see about getting your photos back. It was going not just to the Cradle but they were going to try to have it go around different public buildings and promote Long Island Aviation. I donated my photos to Gary Lewi for all that he has done for people who love aviation. Like allowing photographers on the ramp when the AAM is closed to take pictures of very public aircraft without asking for a dime, Letting us do the History Under the Stars, Trying to help promote the love of aviation any way he can. If the roaming photos failed, so be it...it was not for lack of him trying. He is a great man and I will always smile when I see him. I could never say anything bad about him and all he try's to do for everyone.

[mirrodie]

Moose, I use illegals in jest. IF one really wanted to put heads together though, between students of architecture and companies vying for PR and marketing, it could be a win win, but you hit the nail on the head, its Nassau and thus, politics at the heart of the matter.

Fred, don't misunderstand me. I'm not asking for my photos back nor am I making any kind of statement against Gary. Its out of his hands I am sure. But those photos are another example of a rotating exhibit.

What I am saying is there are opportunities abound that should be tapped into and the photos were just another example.

Here's another idea, just an example, Go to the local restaurants and have them validate something for reduced admission at Cradle if they take their food receipt to Cradle, within, say, 15 days.

lots of cheap, easy ways to promote. But once you get people in, you got to mix it up. Otherwise that museum is pretty stagnant, Concorde aside. Perhaps having been there thrice in 6 years is too much but I could give the museum tour myself.

[ch2tdriver]

No aviation museum rotated its exhibits.... It is not like other museums that way.



Fred, that's not entirely true. Prior to Udvar Hazy, the NASM regularly rotated aircraft to the museum on the mall from the Garber storage facility. Back in the late 80's when I was in college, I averaged a trip a year to NASM. The end of the building, opposite the end with the LEM, was the site for the rotation. One year they had the Fed Ex Falcon 20 on display, a year later they had a nice exhibit of the F6F Hellcat, complete with mock up carrier deck section. The following year, their F-86 displayed in a revetment layout complete with PSP. So the precedent exists for air museums to do this. Of course at the time if you really wanted to see these aircraft when not on display, you'd have to make a reservation to tour the Garber storage facility, but you'd see them in less than optimal display conditions.

[Derf]

I stand corrected

[PhilDernerJr]

I'm still not quite seeing what the problem is with the Cradle, other than that they don't have the mini-Concorde on display. It's an outstanding museum.

[NIKV69]

lots of cheap, easy ways to promote. But once you get people in, you got to mix it up. Otherwise that museum is pretty stagnant, Concorde aside. Perhaps having been there thrice in 6 years is too much but I could give the museum tour myself.

Epic use of the word "thrice"!

I don't think rotating exhibits would do anything. That place has the luxury of having that dome theatre and I think should go with that. Get a few more interesting speakers, anything to get people to come.

[Derf]

they do have great speakers there...Mario and I had been then to see Captain Al Haynes a few years ago, the speak with the ISS and let kids ask them questions. There are lots of things they do thru out the year. There is lots more but I do not follow all the speakers as I am poor white trash and can not afford to see everything I want to.

[moose135]

So I decided to put my money where my mouth is (what an odd expression...) and visited the Cradle this afternoon. Not only that, but rather than pay the $14 admission, I put up $25 for a one-year membership, which gives you unlimited visits, plus discounts for the movie, gift shop, and other events. Since they were celebrating the 100th Anniversary of Naval Aviation, they had a number of extra displays set up - in the main lobby, a WWII Navy Jeep, plus several display cases of models and painting depicting the history of Naval Aviation.

http://www.moose135photography.com/Long-Island/Cradle-of-Aviation-Museum/JM20110417CradleOfAviationNavy/1255787844_2NxTbQJ-L.jpg

http://www.moose135photography.com/Long-Island/Cradle-of-Aviation-Museum/JM20110417CradleOfAviationBell/1255786623_fTwDL8p-L.jpg

This is new since I was there last - the cockpit of a 727...
http://www.moose135photography.com/Long-Island/Cradle-of-Aviation-Museum/JM20110417CradleOfAviation727S/1255786219_QNbxwGG-L.jpg

As part of the weekend's events, they had several aircraft cockpits open for viewing - this is the front seat of the F-14 forward fuselage on display. I also got a look at the Avenger cockpit, but I'm not at all happy with the photos I got.

http://www.moose135photography.com/Long-Island/Cradle-of-Aviation-Museum/JM20110417CradleOfAviationTomc/1255788457_w4NctMr-L.jpg

There were even some AAM reenactors on hand to mark the history of Naval Aviation.

http://www.moose135photography.com/Long-Island/Cradle-of-Aviation-Museum/JM20110417CradleNavalAviation0/1255784192_FGbLzqX-L.jpg

I ended up not taking as many photos as I expected I would. Just after getting to the museum, I bumped into a friend, Sol, their head of security, and an AAM member as well. We spent almost two hours walking through the museum, sharing stories about the place and the aircraft.




and as you said, the actual lunar lander
http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Cradle-of-Aviation/IMG47181920/416610470_8D2m5-M-1.jpg

That one is sort of like the Enterprise. It was the first LM built, but was retained by Grumman for engineering, test, and training purposes. Following Moon missions, when the astronauts recommended changes to the LM, they were tried out on this unit and tested by the upcoming mission crew before being changed on the LM that was going to be flown.

This LM, in the simulated Moon display, is the actual LM that would have flown with Apollo 18.
http://www.moose135photography.com/Long-Island/Cradle-of-Aviation-Museum/JM20070828LISMS022/189555293_PM2tr-L-2.jpg

And I do need to get back there soon - in the theater, they are playing "Tornado Alley" which is the IMAX movie they were filming during the past couple of season's of Discovery Channel's "Storm Chasers" show. I watched that regularly, and it will be interesting to see the movie that resulted from it. Sean Casey and others from the show/movie were speaking at the Cradle this past week, but unfortunately I wasn't able to get down there to see them.

[mirrodie]

Cool. Well my family is headed in tomorrow with another family. It'll be Highheels 2nd visit since fall of 2006.

[Derf]

Great review Moose.... $25 bucks? I am going to have to pay. Sounds like a fun winters day to play with my 6.5mm lens. I need to call Bill to get into the F-14 #3 and A-6F cockpits to document them. It will be a full day of shooting, but this little project keeps going on the back burner.

[PhilDernerJr]

Keep in mind the Intrepid is $22 plus tax and you don't even get access to the whole museum (Concorde), and there are no space artifacts. You run throught he entire Intrepid in about 25 minutes.

[T-Bird76]

Epic use of the word "thrice"!

I don't think rotating exhibits would do anything. That place has the luxury of having that dome theatre and I think should go with that. Get a few more interesting speakers, anything to get people to come.

Rotating exhibits work very well with all museums and keep people coming to see different exhibits, the cradle has lacked that. Their other big issue is location, its a poor location that is strictly a destination location vs. a multi event cultural or retail environment. If the lighthouse project ever goes through that will do a wealth of good for the museum.

[PhilDernerJr]

What's the lighthouse project?

I agree their location is terrible. Very tucked away and just no natural exposure unless you're there for something else.

[Art at ISP]

The Lighthouse project was Charles Wang's plan to develop the area around the Nassau Coliseum, which would have included a new Coliseum, hotels, and office space as well as some residential buildings if I am not mistaken. Unfortunately Wang was at odds with the Town of Hempstead who made him scale it back to a point where it may not make sense any more, so if not already dead it may be on Life Support.

I agree the museum is in a very bad location...albeit one appropriate to its heritage... I remember as a child watching bombers cross Hempstead Turnpike landing at Mitchell Field, but I guess I am really dating myself now considering the base closed to air traffic around 1961....

[PhilDernerJr]

I'd also like to add that while the Intrepid doesn't rotate anything, they removed the massive sculpture of the flag-raising at Iwo Jima, and also the piece of the AA 767 that hit Tower 1 on 9/11. Both were my favorites there and they yanked them for no good reason. Lame.

[Fighting_falcon_51]

This is what the Lighthouse Project is/was supposed to look like.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhVazxMm-xQ

[NIKV69]

The Lighthouse project was Charles Wang's plan to develop the area around the Nassau Coliseum, which would have included a new Coliseum, hotels, and office space as well as some residential buildings if I am not mistaken. Unfortunately Wang was at odds with the Town of Hempstead who made him scale it back to a point where it may not make sense any more, so if not already dead it may be on Life Support.

I agree the museum is in a very bad location...albeit one appropriate to its heritage... I remember as a child watching bombers cross Hempstead Turnpike landing at Mitchell Field, but I guess I am really dating myself now considering the base closed to air traffic around 1961....

Now a casino being discussed. Which has zero chance of happening.

[alberchico]

Not sure if anybody has noticed this but take a look at their ticket prices:

http://www.cradleofaviation.org/general_info/generalf.html

Last year when I visited it was only $9 for basic admission:

http://replay.web.archive.org/20081014060926/http://www.cradleofaviation.org/general_info/generalf.html

So despite not having any new exhibits their idea of attracting more people is to jack up ticket prices ??? :mad:

Are they freaking kidding ?

[Derf]

Well I went to day and got $25 dollar year pass with IMAX movie! It was well worth it and look forward to returning with Ken and hope Moose can join us. Here are just a few of the pictures I took today and was happy to see more things on display than the last time I was there. I was amazed to find that the P-47 was the LAST MADE P-47!!!!

http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Cradle-of-Aviation/i-X4cHRmh/0/M/img_2275_6_7-M.jpg

http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Cradle-of-Aviation/i-mzzjqmx/0/L/img_2299-L.jpg

http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Cradle-of-Aviation/i-cbPkCNT/0/L/img_2393_4_5-L.jpg

http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Cradle-of-Aviation/i-NCvW7Lq/0/L/img_2546_7_8-L.jpg

http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Cradle-of-Aviation/i-2PgKfK4/0/L/img_2588_89_90-L.jpg

http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Cradle-of-Aviation/i-wsmGqmt/0/L/img_2609-L.jpg

http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Cradle-of-Aviation/i-WkwGnKt/0/L/img_2721-L.jpg

http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Cradle-of-Aviation/i-FK74dJg/0/L/img_2718_19_20-L.jpg

http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Cradle-of-Aviation/i-Wc34qF3/0/L/img_2754_5_6-M.jpg

http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Cradle-of-Aviation/i-KrLgStx/0/M/img_2817-M.jpg

http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Cradle-of-Aviation/i-qwZMmwH/0/M/img_2812-M.jpg

http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Cradle-of-Aviation/i-T9W4kxB/0/M/img_2830-M.jpg

http://www.longislandwallpapers.com/Aviation/Cradle-of-Aviation/i-47PPtnZ/0/M/pano%201-M.jpg

I had a great time but going, Thanks Ken

[alberchico]

Sorry for bumping up this thread, but I was wondering with the announcement 6 months ago that the Islanders will vacate Nassau Coliseum, will this affect museum attendance considering that this area will now become a ghost town ? Are they even able to make a profit or does the revenue from their IMAX theater help prop them up ? Does Nassau county provide any financial support ? Of all the museums I have attended this one always has the fewest visitors whenever I visit. Their $25 membership is a relative bargain compared to other institutions.

Having visited all 3 aviation museums in the NY area recently, the Intrepid really comes off as an underwhelming experience.

[Gerard]

Sorry for bumping up this thread, but I was wondering with the announcement 6 months ago that the Islanders will vacate Nassau Coliseum, will this affect museum attendance considering that this area will now become a ghost town?

This area will not be a ghost town. Still lots of interest in developing it from a number of sources.
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/real-estate/nassau-coliseum-rise-dead-developers-reimagine-arena-article-1.1354857

[adscram14]

I've been to the Cradle on several occasions, and it has never impressed me. They need to do a serious revamp of their offerings, and like the others have said, the location is subpar. Besides Roosevelt Field, why else would one need to go to Garden City? It's a long trip from CT/NJ and even NYC.
Maybe some sort of partnership with Intrepid?

[NIKV69]

The only thing that would generate constant revenue is a casino. Anything else is going to be more of the same.

[yankees368]

I guess I will chime in here as well. I visited the museum sometime last year, and it was super disappointing. Nothing is up to date, and the entire place just has a feel of "oh, this stuff is all really old." They had a looping display of radar traffic that must be from the late 90s, when they could just show Planefinder. Also had an ancient recording of ATC, when they could just play LiveATC.
Would not go back until they revamp the entire place.

[PhilDernerJr]

I was there a couple weeks ago and loved it just as much as always. I'd rather drive out there than go to the Intrepid still.

[wunaladreamin]

I guess I will chime in here as well. I visited the museum sometime last year, and it was super disappointing. Nothing is up to date, and the entire place just has a feel of "oh, this stuff is all really old." They had a looping display of radar traffic that must be from the late 90s, when they could just show Planefinder. Also had an ancient recording of ATC, when they could just play LiveATC.
Would not go back until they revamp the entire place.
It's a museum. Things are supposed to be old.

[yankees368]

It's a museum. Things are supposed to be old.

A museum does not have to look and feel old as well. Their displays, such as what i mentioned above, are not supposed to be old. The ride that they advertize, does not have to be old and run of 35mm film. A museums pieces can be old, but the museum itself should not be.

[moose135]

I've been to the Cradle on several occasions, and it has never impressed me. They need to do a serious revamp of their offerings, and like the others have said, the location is subpar. Besides Roosevelt Field, why else would one need to go to Garden City? It's a long trip from CT/NJ and even NYC.
Maybe some sort of partnership with Intrepid?
There are 2.8 million people living on Long Island (Nassau/Suffolk) plus many more in Queens. I don't think anyone is suggesting that someone travel from CT just to see the Cradle if you aren't an aviation buff, but there are plenty of people for whom it is an easy trip - much more convenient that getting to the Intrepid from eastern Long Island. And I don't see any benefit to a partnership with the Intrepid - they have enough of their own problems.



They had a looping display of radar traffic that must be from the late 90s, when they could just show Planefinder. Also had an ancient recording of ATC, when they could just play LiveATC.
How many people, especially kids, are going to know the difference. And that is if they would even be able to use those services. I couldn't find anything on Planefinder's site, but at LiveATC, the Terms of Use specify "for personal non-commercial purposes only." When I was there a few months back, I was wondering if it was a current ATC broadcast, until I heard the controller give instructions to a TWA flight - that brought a smile to my face...gone but not forgotten.

I was there on Saturday, with some refugees of the rain, and enjoyed it as much as ever. They had a few new exhibits, and I heard from a reliable source that they will be expanding the building to allow more of the collection to be displayed. It's an excellent facility, with some historically significant items on display.


A museum does not have to look and feel old as well. Their displays, such as what i mentioned above, are not supposed to be old. The ride that they advertize, does not have to be old and run of 35mm film. A museums pieces can be old, but the museum itself should not be.
I guess you've never been to the American Airpower Museum...

[PhilDernerJr]

At least the cradle has some organizationa nd a little history. Intrepid has nothing more than planes that sit there, in no order of year or country of origin, with just a sign that says what it is. There's no EXPERIENCE. You can jsut wander through, read signs, and you're done in 30 minutes. For $48 per person.

[alberchico]

At least the cradle has some organizationa nd a little history. Intrepid has nothing more than planes that sit there, in no order of year or country of origin, with just a sign that says what it is. There's no EXPERIENCE. You can jsut wander through, read signs, and you're done in 30 minutes. For $48 per person.

The one thing that really annoys me about the Intrepid is that you now have to pay extra to visit the Concorde. But the Cradle of Aviation really needs better advertising. The American Airpower Museum is packed with crowds for Memorial Day weekend so obviously people know about the events taking place.

Even if there are plans in place to replace Nassau Coliseum, wouldn't they run into the same political opposition that killed the previous project ?

[moose135]

The American Airpower Museum is packed with crowds for Memorial Day weekend so obviously people know about the events taking place.
It also helps that everything flying in the air show parks right outside the AAM.

[gpalz1]

Took my niece two weeks ago. A wonderful facility. Unfortunately the Blue Angel ride was out of commission. My niece was looking forward to that. My only complaint (if I can call it that) was accidentally finding the F14 tucked away with the Firefighter museum.

[moose135]

My only complaint (if I can call it that) was accidentally finding the F14 tucked away with the Firefighter museum.
That's actually the "annex" of the Cradle. They didn't have room for the F-14 and A-10 in the main section of the museum, and displayed them in that other room. The fire museum was added a number of years later.

[TJK]

I remember visiting the "museum" when it was a handful of airplanes in a dark, dusty hangar. What they have created is nothing short of magnificent. I do wish more people were aware of this gem we have in our backyard.

The IMAX thing may be a license issue about the name - their web page is still ".../imax" but they refer to the "Giant Screen Dome Theater". They still have a full schedule of movies throughout April. And this weekend, April 16 & 17, they are holding a celebration for the Centennial of Naval Aviation (http://www.cradleofaviation.org/news.html#cent). I haven't been to the Cradle in a while, maybe I'll stop in this weekend.


I remember it from the old two dusty hangar days. In fact that was when I first fell in love with aviation. Went with my grandad when I was about 7. Been obsessed with aviation ever since.

[Dabbey]

And the sad fact is that I believe this museum at its current site is only 11 y/o. I believe it has had $$ problems from the get go. I don't know its current financial situation.

[Billbo1970]

And the sad fact is that I believe this museum at its current site is only 11 y/o. I believe it has had $$ problems from the get go. I don't know its current financial situation.

It's been 11 years?! Wow, time flies!

[alberchico]

It's been 11 years?! Wow, time flies!

I think the problem is that the AAM is doing a better job of attracting visitors than the Cradle. It's just a little bit farther away and is located on an active airport and has airshows and special events that attract large crowds. They obviously do a better job advertising than the Cradle. If people are going to visit 1 aviation museum its going to be the AAM. You would think that having an IMAX theater and hosting special events would attract large crowds but apparently not. I remember one day visiting the classic car show held in the museum parking lot. There were close to a hundred people walking around looking at the cars but inside the museum there must have been only a dozen people...

[Billbo1970]

AAM does a good job promoting itself on FB too.

[Gerard]

http://msg.com/msghubvision/proposal.html

[alberchico]

I stopped by the museum the other day to renew my membership and the woman at the counter told me that prices are being jacked up again. :frown:

Apparently membership prices are being doubled which is not a good sign. She didn't know when the increases will take effect but if anyone wants to take out a basic $25 membership, now would be a good time. It was also annoying that the large X ride theater was out of service as well as many coin operated arcade flight sims.

[alberchico]

Membership prices have now doubled to $50 per person. What a stupid policy.....

https://www.cradleofaviation.org/support/membership.html

[PhilDernerJr]

It always sucks when you see prices go up, but that $50 for MEMBERSHIP, which gives you nonstop admission on a pile of perks and benefits....whereas the Intrepid charges $2 less than that for one day at their unorganized tourist trap.

[Billbo1970]

It's WAY too steep of a price increase. If they lose more than 50% of their existing membership, which they probably will, the end result will be a net loss.