Bayswater park closed?

[Flyingkai]

Hey guys,
I'm a spotter from MUC, Germany. I will be in New York over christmas. And of course i'll do some spotting at JFK. I read in another thread that Bayswater park is closed. I actuallly wanted to do some spotting there so i wanted to know if someone could give some information about that and could tell me if it opens again or not(25.12.-30.12.)
Thanks a lot.
Here some pictures from Munich:
http://www.imgbox.de/users/public/images/ybZmRcB4E4.jpg
http://www.imgbox.de/users/public/images/vsmkxk1u1Q.jpg
http://www.imgbox.de/users/public/images/ZSW9qpJtGR.jpg
http://www.imgbox.de/users/public/images/76s7L3iqSf.JPG

[gonzalu]

We don;t think it is closed permanently but it has been closed the last few times Zee71 has gone there. I have only encountered it being closed once. There are other options depending on what RWY you want to spot.

[Flyingkai]

I just thought at Bayswater I could spot both 4s and 13L. And 13R distant.

[gonzalu]

OK, well, Bayswater is good for:

4L/4R Approaches, Landings
4L Taxiing aircraft (far, Heat Shimmer)
31L Landings
31R Landings (far, only really good for watching with Binoculars 12X or greater)
13R Takeoffs
13L Takeoffs are far and will not come close to you upon departure as they usually fly RWY heading and bank left, away from you
4L takeoffs sometimes will rotate early and you may get a shot while crossing the tower, but again, very distant... 500mm or better on crop sensor
22L Landings of larger aircraft that use the full length... if they do, you can catch them turning at the end of the RWY. 300-400mm, heat shimmer.

Now, let's say Bayswater is closed. If the 4s are in use, you "can" get reasonable shots when they cross the beach around Rockaway Beach area... see map below.
If the 31s are in use, Innwood Park will get you close to the 31L pattern. Only really good for Delta/American and some JetBlue and the odd Cargolux, Finnair Cargo (I have missed it twice now) and some others. Definitely A380s from Air France and Emirates will be on 31L.

All other spots are good and open for approaches on 22s, 31R, Departures on 31L.

Now, the map below... if 4R is what you must have and you really need/want to capture something, follow along. I am NOT recommending this to you or anyone NOT from NYC as it is a push, but, if you must, give it a try. I certainly would be willing to help you with this in person once you;re here if indeed Bayswater is closed and you really want to capture something ONLY available on 4R :-)

The area circled is a park and the planes pass not too low but not that high at final approach speeds so you can get reasonable images. I don't have my own examples to show you. The other area marked Boardwalk is a public boardwalk you can try as they will be crossing the beach around this area. Depends on the origin of the flight as the larger international flights will be banking just before getting here to line up with the localizer on 4R.

http://manny.smugmug.com/photos/1118101639_Am7zr-O-0.jpg

[Flyingkai]

Thank you very much.

[NIKV69]

Why would Bayswater be closed? I thought they worked out the budget.

[gonzalu]

No clue... but a few times Zee71 went over recently and it was closed. I would think the local community alone would kill to keep it open!

[Zee71]

Yeah.........the last few times I went to Bayswater the gate was locked. No idea why either. Maybe someone else might have better luck.

[NIKV69]

Next time they are on the 4s I will try but I am getting the impression it's a wx thing. That they aren't opening it unless the wx is good. I have been when it's been cold and I am the only idiot there.

[gonzalu]

Sorry Nick, I will NOT ALLOW you to take ownership of being an idiot... no way man. I ALSO HAVE BEEN the ONLY IDIOT there when it has been waaay too cold. However, it is the only way to minimize the heat shimmer on 4L taxiing craft... I say MINIMIZE as NOTHING can eliminate it unfortunately. Not even sub-zero weather in Alaska as Jeremy confirmed! :cool:

I must say, there are some fishermen there that make us look like amateurs... I have gotten there and they have been there already, and when I leave, they are still there for the long run. Once I felt like it was 10 degrees below with the windchill... and that's the problem there, the blowing wind is fierce! I can take the cold, but the wind makes it impossible, never mind fighting the VR against the wind with my windsail (200-400mm f/4)

[NIKV69]

You saw some brave ones, every time I have been there in sub zero wx nobody was around. They were using 22R for departures this morning and I almost took a ride but I wanted the 4s. They should open Bayswater this is BS.

[gonzalu]

Yeah, I have not had the need as the last few times I have been out they have been on everything BUT 4s.

[Flyingkai]

So most of the "europes" and "asias" will land at 22L/4R and some others like the A380s on 31L/13R?

[Zee71]

Depending on the winds of course...........the A380's can land on 31L, 4R, 22L, and 13L ........... and can land on 13R (but thus far I haven't seen them use that).

[sammers4247]

Is Bayswater not an NYC Parks Dept. Park or something? Here in Staten Island, our NYC parks are never closed, regardless of the weather. Occasionally we'll get gov't owned parkland closed due to brushfires and stuff like that but that's about it.

[gonzalu]

Bayswater is a SATE park... and NOT part of Jamaica Bay National Wildlife Refuge...

And yes, it was closed this morning at 6:30am when I first visited and then again at 7:30 :-(

[sammers4247]

Ah ok. So that explains it. Because I knew that NYC parks never really close.

[PhilDernerJr]

NYC parks close at dusk, and you can be fined for being in them afterward (I've received a summons for this). "Being in park after posted close."

[gonzalu]

Phil, you rascal. I wonder what you were doing in a park after dusk... hmmm...

[sammers4247]

NYC parks close at dusk, and you can be fined for being in them afterward (I've received a summons for this). "Being in park after posted close."

Yeah, I know, should have phrased that differently.. they generally don't close for any other reason, though. At least not the way Bayswater apparently has been.

[gonzalu]

http://gothamist.com/2010/05/16/baywater_state_park_slated_to_close.php

I know it's an old article but is it related? And does that mean FOREVER?? I hope not or else we will be very badly affected by its closure. The hobby will suffer a tremendous blow

[gonzalu]

Is it possible that The Feds can swoop it up into Jamaica bay? I mean, OMG if it closed we would have no way to enjoy 4L/R lol...

[gonzalu]

As per [this] article, the park is opened by a neighbor? Could it be that neighbor is on vacation? Seems like a lot of power to give the locals to keep people away!

"The Park is opened by a neighbor adjacent to the park"

http://awalkintheparknyc.blogspot.com/2010/03/bayswater-state-park-closing-to-save.html

[Zee71]

Went to Bayswater on Dec 18 briefly while they were using the 22s. I figured I would try to catch some departures. The park was open, but I didn't stick around long.............too darn cold and then the clouds rolled in.

[gonzalu]

As long as it opened, we are happy :-)