JFK 4L closed due to TURTLES

[bluejuice]

After a wild night here at JFK we are looking at taxi times of over 1 1/4 due to 4L CLOSED due to several pilots reporting turtles on the runway.. Only at JFK !!!

[T-Bird76]

This isn't anything out of the ordinary. JFK's land is abundant with wildlife ranging from turtles, fox, jack rabbits, frogs, possum, raccoon, cranes, ducks, geese, and other species indigenous to wetlands. I've been out there many times and have seen large jack rabbits sprint across active runways. Port will send out their wildlife folks who will safely remove the turtles back to the swamp.

[Matt Molnar]

General Departure Delays: Due to OTHER: RWY CONTAMINATION, traffic is experiencing Gate Hold and Taxi delays between 15 minutes and 29 minutes in length and decreasing.

[Matt Molnar]

LOLz: http://nycaviation.com/2009/07/08/jfk-r ... o-turtles/ (http://nycaviation.com/2009/07/08/jfk-runway-closed-due-to-turtles/)

[erpiu98]

RWY 4L/22R was never closed. There were turtkes on the RWY but they were being removed by PA Wildlife staff. This was causing some minor delays to departing traffic. The ATCT decided to use the 31s to minimize delay but that move may have backfired since there were too many aircrafts in the line up for 4L and it took a while to switch everything to the 31s.

[Matt Molnar]

Ahh, thanks for the clarification.

[moose135]

"Caution wake turbulence behind the departing turtle..."

[Matt Molnar]

"Caution wake turbulence behind the departing turtle..."
http://nycaviation.com/newspage/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/cayman-turtle-250.jpg

[Matt Molnar]

Many thanks to bluejuice for the scoop! This story is now spreading around the world but it was broken right here!

USA Today picked up the story (http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/2009/07/fear-the-turtle-at-jfk.html) early on and linked back to us, YAY!

NY Post picked up the story this afternoon, but gave us no props. Reuters and the AP have also picked it up and it's being syndicated all over the place...i.e. Gulf Times in Qatar. Channel 2 has it on their website as well, I'd imagine we'll see it in most of the local media outlets.

[Matt Molnar]

Some new details...

A departing plane did indeed run over some turtles around 9:30am.

Port picked up 78 diamondback terrapins and released them away from the airport.

[PhilDernerJr]

Gothamist picked up the article as well, with nice props: http://gothamist.com/2009/07/08/turtle_ ... runway.php (http://gothamist.com/2009/07/08/turtle_power_closes_jfk_runway.php)

[Gerard]

What brought them out? Alll the heavy rain from yesterday?

[Matt Molnar]

What brought them out? Alll the heavy rain from yesterday?
A Port spokesman said it is mating season.

[Gerard]

What brought them out? Alll the heavy rain from yesterday?
A Port spokesman said it is mating season.

Oh that would definitely do it. Headline should read "Horny Turtles Delay Flights". :lol:

[Mateo]

Fear the Turtle!

[T-Bird76]

This story is so overblown it’s not even funny.... Things were perfectly under control at JFK until the a$$ hats at ATC decided instead of waiting for Port to clear the turtles like they were doing, they changed the runways in the middle of a push. The turtles didn't cause the delays at all...the piss poor management at the FAA caused the delays.

How many times are runways temporary closed because of FOD? You don't see those stories in the news. Now I'm sure some Political leader who needs some time in front of a camera will come out and say the wildlife at JFK is a hazard and something has to be done. I'm sorry this story is a joke

[Matt Molnar]

This story is so overblown it’s not even funny.... Things were perfectly under control at JFK until the a$$ hats at ATC decided instead of waiting for Port to clear the turtles like they were doing, they changed the runways in the middle of a push. The turtles didn't cause the delays at all...the piss poor management at the FAA caused the delays.

How many times are runways temporary closed because of FOD? You don't see those stories in the news. Now I'm sure some Political leader who needs some time in front of a camera will come out and say the wildlife at JFK is a hazard and something has to be done. I'm sorry this story is a joke
It's a big story mainly because it's cool to see wildlife making its presence felt in places where you least expect it, i.e. in New York City, at one of the world's busiest airports.

And in fairness, they did pick them up pretty quickly, but whoever had to make that decision probably thought it might take longer. Not very often that they have to dispatch people to round up 80 turtles.

[T-Bird76]

This story is so overblown it’s not even funny.... Things were perfectly under control at JFK until the a$$ hats at ATC decided instead of waiting for Port to clear the turtles like they were doing, they changed the runways in the middle of a push. The turtles didn't cause the delays at all...the piss poor management at the FAA caused the delays.

How many times are runways temporary closed because of FOD? You don't see those stories in the news. Now I'm sure some Political leader who needs some time in front of a camera will come out and say the wildlife at JFK is a hazard and something has to be done. I'm sorry this story is a joke
It's a big story mainly because it's cool to see wildlife making its presence felt in places where you least expect it, i.e. in New York City, at one of the world's busiest airports.

And in fairness, they did pick them up pretty quickly, but whoever had to make that decision probably thought it might take longer. Not very often that they have to dispatch people to round up 80 turtles.

Matt it’s not a big story in no way shape or form....it’s the uninformed media once again turning something into hype. If they knew the facts or took a minute to do some research other then going off a post made on an enthusiast website they'd see it was a non-story. I spoke to the people who rounded up the turtles...it was totally under control and the real story is why ATC made the poor decision to totally reconfigure JFK during a heavy departure bank? That's what should be reported here...that's the real story, the continued poor management decisions of the FAA/ATC.

Wildlife is a big part of JFK and yes VERY often the wildlife folks at JFK are rounding up, and chasing away the abundance of wildlife that lives at JFK. JFK was built on swamp land and a HUGE portion of its land is still wetlands inhabited by a great deal of wildlife.

FOD shuts downs runways all the time around the world..its investigated, cleaned up, and the runway reopens. The risk to the safety of the passengers wasn’t the turtles but the moron(s) who decided to move around how many planes to another runway.

This is a story about perception and nothing more, and the problem with perception is its like an a$$hole…everyone’s got one.

[PhilDernerJr]

Is it a big story/ Not really. But you seem to think it's a NEGATIVE story, when it isn't. Was there a runway change/closure? Yes, but it's not a big deal, as he delays associated weren't much different from normal delays experienced due to basic traffic levels, especially the morning after a big storm.

I see it as an entertaining, "cute" story, and a nice relief from the nonstop Michael Jackson/Korea/Iran stuff that's been keeping me off most new sites that past few days. I haven't seen any articles quoting any politicians as being outraged or any actual complaints pertaining to it, so I don't consider it to be "overblown". Relatively minor stories make the big headlines all the time. I don't think anyone implied it was a big deal.

[T-Bird76]

This story is now spreading around the world but it was broken right here!

USA Today picked up the story early on and linked back to us, YAY!

NY Post picked up the story this afternoon, but gave us no props. Reuters and the AP have also picked it up and it's being syndicated all over the place...i.e. Gulf Times in Qatar. Channel 2 has it on their website as well, I'd imagine we'll see it in most of the local media outlets.

I think that's pretty good evidence of this non event being blown out of proportion. "HEADLINE NEWS! JFK OVERRUN WITH VARMENTS!"

Phil I don't think I ever said or implied it was a negative story...or are you psychic and can read my mind? ;) I also never said "a" politician has commented...I said and let me make this very clear since apparently I'm writing in another language, that I can see a Political leader using this as an opportunity to get in front of a camera. I also clearly said that the real story isn't being reported. That's what the discussion should be in the media not a bunch of turtles that were cleared within minutes. Perhaps the media should report that a coke can blew onto the runway...here's a headline "JFK RUNWAYS FULL OF TRASH!"

[PhilDernerJr]

The implications to negativity come from your comments about the situation, saying things like "perception's like an a-hole", calling people morons and asshats, even though there is no actual problem with what happened. You're saying ATC is to blame....but I'm not sure for what. they changed runways so cres culd handle the situation, and the delays were very minimal. Sounds like everyone did the right thing to me on all sides.

Even if not negative, you mentioned "hype" and "overblown", and I don't think anyone mad a big deal of it at all anyway. Though fod and wildlife are common in the area, I just think this is a bit out of the ordinary for 80 turtles to be there, and it's a fun story to have seen around the news. That story is the turtles, not the delays. :)

[T-Bird76]

even though there is no actual problem with what happened

No problem? How about the cost to the airlines in the delays that wasn't needed?


You're saying ATC is to blame....but I'm not sure for what.

For making an unnecessary decision when the situation was under control and just about clear by the ppl who run the airport.


Even if not negative, you mentioned "hype" and "overblown", and I don't think anyone mad a big deal of it at all anyway.

The story was reported in a non factual way around the globe....that's hype and overblown.

Phil you've totally missed mistake of the entire situation...a bad decission was made which is par for the course lately at the FAA in which an airport that already has delays suffered added delays with rippling effects. My point is no in in the media or this site is questioning why a decission was made that interfered with the operation of a major airport. btw I'm not the only person raising that question...some other folks are too.

[AndrewM]

Fear the Turtle!


Thats right! We Terrapins are a fearsome bunch.

-Andrew (U of Maryland '02)

[Gerard]

>Even if not negative, you mentioned "hype" and "overblown", and I don't think anyone mad a big deal of it at all anyway. Though fod and wildlife are common in the area, I just think this is a bit out of the ordinary for 80 turtles to be there, and it's a fun story to have seen around the news. That story is the turtles, not the delays. :)[/quote]<

I agree. Wow, sounds like someone woke up on the wrong side of the runway!!! :lol: :lol:

[GrummanFan]

I also heard the Turtle story over the radio this morning on WFUV. No NYCA credit, though.

[Tom_Turner]

As an aside, the Diamond Back Terrapin population, by some accounts, is something like 1% of what it was 50 or 60 years ago...when they were commonly taken for "turtle soup".

Although the population may have stabilized in much of its range, it doesn't appear they'll ever make it back to anything approaching those numbers.

One interesting behavior is that they apparently have high fidelity nesting or breeding grounds - which may be overblown to an extent as I am not so certain there was ever a causeway or island where the runway now is, but I saw at least one source indicating the "problem" here is not new (to Tommy's point I would say), but also a reference to more turtles appearing even after the initial 70 or so were relocated.. if this was going to be an all day affair, perhaps the runway change wasn't so bad?... there was one indication a few had been run over already...(or maybe thats not right, and the runways were changed back again in short order? I don't know)

Tom

[Matt Molnar]

there was one indication a few had been run over already...(or maybe thats not right, and the runways were changed back again in short order? I don't know)
According to Channel 2 a plane reported running some over around 920am, and other pilots reported seeing "a lot of turtles" which is what led to the switch. I dialed up ATIS a few times and it they remained on the 31s for the next several hours.

[NIKV69]

Many thanks to bluejuice for the scoop! This story is now spreading around the world but it was broken right here!



http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-12/905683/rkellywtfio8.gif


it's cool to see wildlife making its presence felt in places where you least expect it, i.e. in New York City, at one of the world's busiest airports.



Especially since it's only their natural habitat

Kind if agree with Tommy, must have been a slow news day.

[emshighway]

Conan O'Brien just mentioned it on the Tonight Show.

[mmedford]

Now why the need to blame the FAA over this?

Wildlife management isn't the FAA's responsibility at the airport; it is up to Port...and if it was managed properly, 80 turtles wouldn't have been found on a runway all at once.

[T-Bird76]

Now why the need to blame the FAA over this?

Wildlife management isn't the FAA's responsibility at the airport; it is up to Port...and if it was managed properly, 80 turtles wouldn't have been found on a runway all at once.

Who said it was the FAA's responsibility? The Wildlife folks are always on partrol at JFK and these turtle wouldn't have been seen until they came onto the runway, taxiway or roadway because they easily blend into the grass. How many airports around the U.S are also a protected nature perserve? That's a fine balance to manage and they do a pretty good job.

[bluejuice]

Gee All this over turtles, What a rucus I caused. Seriously ,the problem arose when the port Changed runways during the AM push. Usually at around 9 AM taxi times run about 30-50 minutes on a normal quiet day. You stop departures for as little as 10 minutes to remove a couple of turtles and BANG youve started to create a major delay. You then take your normal daily departures and continue to feed into the stopped line and then do a runway change and you end up easily with 40-50 A/C as we did,waiting to either depart or get to the gate. It became so gridlocked we had an IAT arrival wait about 30 minutes to get cleared off the taxiway. We didnt see departures return to normal till about 1130.

[T-Bird76]

Seriously ,the problem arose when the port Changed runways during the AM push.

Port does not and did not change runways....ATC changed the runways agains Ports request. Get your facts straight