Low flying plane over Manhattan

[Ari707]

Just had an anouncement in my office building that there were reports of a low flying plane in the area, and some other building have been evacuated. seems is was a photo flight of some kind...

[PhilDernerJr]

Why were they evacuating buildings? What moron called for that?

Even if it was a real threat, by the time you would even think to evacuate....you've been hit.

And yes, it's just a photo flight.

[Ari707]

they just anounced it was 2 f-16's and a 747????

[PhilDernerJr]

...and not just any 747 :wink:

[boynose]

http://blog.silive.com/latest_news/2009/04/large_jet.jpg

Which airline is that? :lol:

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/20 ... _over.html (http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/04/faa_says_lowflying_plane_over.html)

[cancidas]

and i was stuck im TTN.. :(

[emshighway]

http://blog.silive.com/latest_news/2009/04/large_jet.jpg

Which airline is that? :lol:

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/20 ... _over.html (http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/04/faa_says_lowflying_plane_over.html)

It is the Airline of the President of the United States known as the United States Air Force. It was a CV-25 (otherwise known as Air Force One (when the President is aboard)). It was a photo shoot to get AF1 and the Statue of Liberty in one shot.

Sorry, I knew about it but couldn't publicize it.

[njgtr82]

Sorry I couldn't share this info with you guys in advance, but a few of my shots are here.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ewratc/

The haze was absolutely terrible out there this morning and light was very tuff.

Bill

[PhilDernerJr]

Great shots, Bill. That bank is amazing in that one shot....can we get Evergreen to do that at JFK you think? haha

[T-Bird76]

So basically the DOD conducted this "photo op" and didn't bother to inform organizations in Lower Manhattan. Sorry but the "we need to keep this sercure" line is bull$hit.... Instead they disrupt 1000s of people and business.

[cancidas]

So basically the DOD conducted this "photo op" and didn't bother to inform organizations in Lower Manhattan. Sorry but the "we need to keep this sercure" line is bull$hit.... Instead they disrupt 1000s of people and business.
yes. they are of course, the DoD. :roll:

[emshighway]

So basically the DOD conducted this "photo op" and didn't bother to inform organizations in Lower Manhattan. Sorry but the "we need to keep this sercure" line is bull$hit.... Instead they disrupt 1000s of people and business.

They actually did notify the agencies with the need to know. The plane has UNITED STATES OF AMERICA across the side in hugh letters!!!

[emshighway]

FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY – NOT FOR PUBLIC OR MEDIA RELEASE

This notification is provided for situational awareness only, and it contains sensitive information regarding a military flight operation over New York City next Monday, April 27 at approximately 1000-1030 EDT. DoD’s Public Affairs posture for this operation is passive - response to query only, with no press release.

Two aircraft will be involved in Monday’s flight; a U.S. Air Force VC-25 will be the aircraft being photographed, and an F-16 Fighter will serve as the photography platform. The VC-25 is flown by the Air Force’s Presidential Airlift Group (PAG) and is a military variant of the Boeing 747 (called “Air Force One” when the President is onboard).

The intent of this mission is to take photos of the 747 with the Statue of Liberty in the background. The 747 and the F-16 will both depart from Andrews AFB at approximately 0930 EDT. Starting at about 1000 EDT, the 747 will fly north over the Verrazano Bridge and enter the counter-clockwise racetrack pattern depicted below at an altitude of 1,000 to 1,500 feet. The F-16 will maneuver to be in position about ½ mile east of the 747 as it passes east of the Statue of Liberty. The F-16 will take pictures of the 747 with the Statue in the background at the viewing angle depicted by the red line below.

The 747 will fly two or three circuits of this racetrack pattern, and the F-16 will maneuver to be in the same relative position for the photo on each pass shown below at an altitude of 1,000 to 1,500 feet.

The attached memorandum from the FAA provides additional details about this operation. If weather conditions prevent the flight next Monday, the back-up dates are Tuesday, April 28 or Thursday, April 30.



By the way this is no longer sensitive information as it is after the fact.

[Matt Molnar]

So basically the DOD conducted this "photo op" and didn't bother to inform organizations in Lower Manhattan. Sorry but the "we need to keep this sercure" line is bull$hit.... Instead they disrupt 1000s of people and business.
Agreed. The President wasn't on board, and they were armed. No great reason for keeping this secret.

[emshighway]

Guess they didn't want anyone to bring their stinger missiles to work to take pot shots at the plane.

[cancidas]

Guess they didn't want anyone to bring their stinger missiles to work to take pot shots at the plane.
or huge sigma lenses. 8)

i can see how people might have gotten scared, but it just goes to show how little they know about the aviation world. the exclusion under the bravo airspace allows for all aircraft to do this, not just little single engines cessnas and pipers. i've heard rumors that the two airplanes were doing 240kts at around 800ft, which is perfectly legal. let's not forget that this was a heavy jet and a fighter, not the type that can slow down to fly formation with a C-172.

in terms of letting the masses know, maybe the DoD should have released this info for the morning news.

[T-Bird76]

Oh btw when this plane was flying around and no one had a clue...the market tanked. Informing need to know agencies is one thing but the private sector runs this country and keeping this quiet was a bad idea.

[PhilDernerJr]

Yeah, how do people not know about bravo airspace?!?!?! DUH!!

[Sierra Charlie]

Hey guys !!! Just saw the miece of information about this 747 flying at a low altitude over Manhattan !
Three Forty found some pics on Flickr... Have a look ;)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ewratc/3480497524/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ewratc/3480497616/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ewratc/3479688357/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ewratc/3480497826/

Raph

[Matt Molnar]

Guess they didn't want anyone to bring their stinger missiles to work to take pot shots at the plane.
Usually when President is actually on the plane, going somewhere, the whole world knows when and where ahead of time.

[Planesntrains]

Dang it! I knew I heard a SAM call sign yesterday! Oh well...next time.

[Matt Molnar]

i can see how people might have gotten scared, but it just goes to show how little they know about the aviation world. the exclusion under the bravo airspace allows for all aircraft to do this, not just little single engines cessnas and pipers. i've heard rumors that the two airplanes were doing 240kts at around 800ft, which is perfectly legal. let's not forget that this was a heavy jet and a fighter, not the type that can slow down to fly formation with a C-172.
Just because it's allowed doesn't mean it is normal for airliners to do this. Even knowing this is legal, if I saw this happening and I couldn't see the paint on the 747, I'd be pretty concerned.

[Matt Molnar]

Hey guys !!! Just saw the miece of information about this 747 flying at a low altitude over Manhattan !
Three Forty found some pics on Flickr... Have a look ;)

Thanks for sharing, the shots you found are actually by Bill / njgtr82, which he posted on the first page of this thread. :)

low-flying-plane-over-manhattan-p114449.html#p114449 (http://nycaviation.com/forum/low-flying-plane-over-manhattan-p114449.html#p114449)

[Delta777LR]

too bad I wasnt in Manhattan at the time to catch it hahaha.

[Tom_Turner]

Well, "I approved a mission over New York," Louis Caldera, director of the White House military office, said in a hastilly-prepared statement. "I apologize...."

Apparently the public not "needing to know" is not now seen with such smugness, but rather a mistake....

Also not clued in, Mayor Bloomberg....
"I'm annoyed -- furious is a better word -- that I wasn't told," the mayor said.

Bloomberg said a deputy commissioner, whom he would not name but derided as "dumb," failed to inform him that the planned photo shoot.
______________________________________________

We just went through this a few years ago, with a Continental Boeing 777 buzzing the Statue with some returning Gulf War soldiers...and at the time, we were told they wouldn't do it again.

But on the other hand, B-17s, Lockheed P-3 Orions and even a B-52 this last summer, have buzzed the harbor before...

The real issue is not alerting the public - simple as that.

Tom

[Gerard]

>The real issue is not alerting the public - simple as that. !!<

Thats the problem - its TOO SIMPLE!!! There was absolutely NO REASON why this had to be kept a secret!! NONE!!
And from what I heard a few minutes ago on the news the WH Chief of Staff had Louis Caldera, director of the White House
military office and the guy who approved the mission in his office and from all reports the guy was being reemed
out BIG TIME!!!!
People are still freaked out from 9/11 and rightly so. They dont need stupidity like this from people who should know better.

[Gerard]

And you know what is ironic, a Cessna flies too close to DC the other day and they go bonkers with lockdowns,
evacuations, scrambling jets and helicopters but then they do this stunt, not alerting the public and think no one is going to freak out.
Gotta love our govt. in action.

[m.marra]

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/gallery?sec ... 49&photo=1 (http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/gallery?section=news&id=6782449&photo=1)

Nobody realized it was one of the Presidential planes? Nice!

[flyboy 28]

Enthusiast or not, some of those pics by the buildings are rather intimidating.

[nikon50bigma]

I saw this when I was in class today. Everything in the class stoped for a couple of minutes when people saw the 'big' plane tailed by the 'small' plane. Everyone rushed to the windows to see it. Most people were saying stuff like 'Oh Sh!t that thing is really close to the Verazzano Bridge".... Then I saw it and was shocked to see AF1 tailed by an F-16.
Just one of those days I wished I had my camera with me.

[coachrowsey]

The pictures are great, but bottom line, the ball was dropped when the public was not notified.

[SCOTYDEMCO]

I agree but most importantly, where where the 16's from? I see alot of colored paint on that tail! :D

[Matt Molnar]

Bloomberg said a deputy commissioner, whom he would not name but derided as "dumb," failed to inform him that the planned photo shoot.
I read earlier that the NYPD and OEM knew about it, but for some reason everyone presumed it was going to be at a higher altitude that wouldn't scare anybody. I'm guessing Bloomberg is talking about one of those guys.

[njgtr82]

Oh btw when this plane was flying around and no one had a clue...the market tanked. Informing need to know agencies is one thing but the private sector runs this country and keeping this quiet was a bad idea.

I don't buy that at all. I think the swine flu had a bigger impact

[Sierra Charlie]

Oops Gotham ! Sorry for re-posting the Bill's pictures !
Whatever great pics :)

Raph

[Mellyrose]

Maybe they just thought it would be a slow news day and needed some material...you know with only the SWINE FLU to report about and all.

[T-Bird76]

Oh btw when this plane was flying around and no one had a clue...the market tanked. Informing need to know agencies is one thing but the private sector runs this country and keeping this quiet was a bad idea.

I don't buy that at all. I think the swine flu had a bigger impact

Then go look at the data Bill.... :roll: :roll: The Swine flu has not had an appreciable effect on the Dow as of yet.

[PhilDernerJr]

Here are people in Battery Park during this. Didn't realize how many people were upset.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=afd_1240869510

[Matt Molnar]

[quote="T-Bird76":1jqmqk1y]Oh btw when this plane was flying around and no one had a clue...the market tanked. Informing need to know agencies is one thing but the private sector runs this country and keeping this quiet was a bad idea.

I don't buy that at all. I think the swine flu had a bigger impact

Then go look at the data Bill.... :roll: :roll: The Swine flu has not had an appreciable effect on the Dow as of yet.[/quote:1jqmqk1y]
There, there, you're both right. The S&P dipped 0.7% within 10 mins of the plane scare, and recouped the loss shortly after it was revealed to be a false alarm. The markets ended down for the day due mostly to the flu news.

[mirrodie]

ALl in all, it REALY is much ado about nothing!

[Planesntrains]

Oh btw when this plane was flying around and no one had a clue...the market tanked. Informing need to know agencies is one thing but the private sector runs this country and keeping this quiet was a bad idea.

I don't buy that at all. I think the swine flu had a bigger impact

Nationwide I can see. But as far as Manhattan Island, if I'm there and look up, I'm gonna freak out more over a 747/VC-25 flying below 15,000ft than I am over a flu variant. Just my honest opinion.

Besides...if you've ever been in a public restroom in NYC, you know flu is the LAST disease you need to worry about. :D

[Matt Molnar]

WTF?! People need to get fired over this.

Channel 2:

A furious President Barack Obama ordered an internal review of Monday's low-flying photo op over the Statue of Liberty.

CBS 2 HD has discovered the feds will have plenty to question.

Federal officials knew that sending two fighter jets and Air Force One to buzz ground zero and Lady Liberty might set off nightmarish fears of a 9/11 replay, but they still ordered the photo-op kept secret from the public.

In a memo obtained by CBS 2 HD the Federal Aviation Administration's James Johnston said the agency was aware of "the possibility of public concern regarding DOD (Department of Defense) aircraft flying at low altitudes" in an around New York City. But they demanded total secrecy from the NYPD, the Secret Service, the FBI and even the mayor's office and threatened federal sanctions if the secret got out.
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/air.force. ... 96457.html (http://wcbstv.com/topstories/air.force.one.2.996457.html)

[mmedford]

Maybe it's just me...

But when did Bloomberg get the title of Airboss?

DoD wants airspace, who is the FAA to deny the request...especially when they want to use that shiny GPS system for their nextgen plan.

[Gerard]

WTF?! People need to get fired over this.

Channel 2:

A furious President Barack Obama ordered an internal review of Monday's low-flying photo op over the Statue of Liberty.

CBS 2 HD has discovered the feds will have plenty to question.

Federal officials knew that sending two fighter jets and Air Force One to buzz ground zero and Lady Liberty might set off nightmarish fears of a 9/11 replay, but they still ordered the photo-op kept secret from the public.

In a memo obtained by CBS 2 HD the Federal Aviation Administration's James Johnston said the agency was aware of "the possibility of public concern regarding DOD (Department of Defense) aircraft flying at low altitudes" in an around New York City. But they demanded total secrecy from the NYPD, the Secret Service, the FBI and even the mayor's office and threatened federal sanctions if the secret got out.
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/air.force. ... 96457.html (http://wcbstv.com/topstories/air.force.one.2.996457.html)

I still dont see the need for TOTAL SECRECY on this? Is there more to this that what we are being told? I mean "federal sanctions"?
WTF is THAT all about?

[Gerard]

BTW the best headline was The Daily News....

SCARE FORCE ONE!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[emshighway]

Jn0tMMYEkQU

Video from the Jersey side.

[Tom_Turner]

The President didn't know about the operation and the Mayor didn't know about it either (by coincidence in the Mayor's case), but in both instances its because government beaurocrats, that apparently might have fit in fine in the former Soviet Union, had/have no regard for the public.

This wasn't publicized, deliberately no less, it wasn't done on a weekend day, the result we all saw here was exactly what was going to happen. Its fine to be glib and make fun of people who ran because they want to live and that they didn't just break out the binoculars to read the titles on the plane they thought might smash into their building....

Yes, people should be fired. Its called being accountable. But then again, no one is accountable to sheep.... and there is no accountability when the mentality is "we can do what we want".

Tom

[cancidas]

But then again, no one is accountable to sheep....
well said!

[mirrodie]

Tom, add to the fact it happened all on a lovely day to the mix.

Whether it was in good taste is questionable. But I find Bloombergs angry reaction ridiculous in that it was a simple issue his own people not alerting him to the fact,


The video gives a real feel of the fear that is still very much present years later. I take back my words much ado about nothing. I don't think I'd panic but at the same time, I can see how people may have felt to see a fighter tailing a jumbo.

[Jetinder]

We heard about it on the news in London.

This was a Homer Simpson moment ............... doh

The white house should have told the press and the mayor of NYC of this happening then people would have not have been as worried as they where.

[Planesntrains]

The video gives a real feel of the fear that is still very much present years later. I take back my words much ado about nothing. I don't think I'd panic but at the same time, I can see how people may have felt to see a fighter tailing a jumbo.

Not to mention that by average Joe ignorance, many of them might not even know what the heck AF-1 looks like. Put that together with a couple of fighters in tow...yeah....

[sporky]

Ah the real reason behind the flight comes out!

http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww345/sporky42/obama_plane.jpg

-Tad

[Matt Molnar]

UPDATE: The guy who made this happen, Louis Caldera, director of the White House Military Office, was canned today.

The White House also said it will release the photos this afternoon, presumably any minute.

[Matt Molnar]

http://www.nycaviation.com/hosting/08af1photo.jpg

Weak. Bill's photos from the ground were better.

[T-Bird76]

Weak. Bill's photos from the ground were better.


How'd you get that photo! That's classified Matt! You must keep it out of the hands Kool Aide Sheik Mohamed!

[PhilDernerJr]

Wow. That wouldn't even make it to Anet.

[LGA777]

Sadly they could have probably gotten a better photo with the VC-25 just about anywhere with a little photoshop action making it appear to be over Lady Liberty.

Cheers

LGA777

[Matt Molnar]

Wow. That wouldn't even make it to Anet.
This is really dumbfounding, almost infuriating. Why didn't they Photoshop it at all? No cropping, no adjustments or anything. I was hoping to see a gorgeous photo that would at least make it seem like we got something good out of this debacle.

[N221UA]

"badmotive" :mrgreen:

[PhilDernerJr]

It's dark through the F-16 cockpit, there's glare, and the composition isn't even that good. I'm usually not much of a photo-nazi, but that's just a poor shot. All that for nothing.

[cancidas]

here is the "Air Force One" gallery from the USAF's own website:

http://www.af.mil/photos/index.asp?galleryID=55

the latest VC-25 pictures aren't included. shame... :?

[AirtrafficController]

At least there is a more creative photo of the VC-25 out there:
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u317/AirtrafficController/746px-Air_Force_One_over_Mt__Rushmo.jpg

[PhilDernerJr]

Another failed shot, unless they wanted to say "Screw you, Teddy!" haha

[LGA777]

The shot over Mt Rushmore is also in video, one of the earlier AF1 documentaries filmed in the first Pres Bush era.

LGA777

[Tom_Turner]

Actually I think the image is useful for certain types of things... Its perfect on Page One of the Post today.. with Headline, text lower left, lady liberty lower right quadrant..

http://affiliate.pressdisplay.com/services/GetAffImage.ashx?pdaff_id=mDRo5OGz47do%2bbumP9U0Aw %3d%3d&channel=Alle_mulige_andre&type=frontpage&width=190&cid=1245

Tom

[Gerard]

> I'm usually not much of a photo-nazi, <

Me neither but sometimes it seems we are in the minority here.
:lol: :lol:

[Matt Molnar]

Actually I think the image is useful for certain types of things... Its perfect on Page One of the Post today.. with Headline, text lower left, lady liberty lower right quadrant..

http://affiliate.pressdisplay.com/services/GetAffImage.ashx?pdaff_id=mDRo5OGz47do%2bbumP9U0Aw %3d%3d&channel=Alle_mulige_andre&type=frontpage&width=190&cid=1245

Tom
The Post's graphics dept. did a nice job cleaning it up. Glad someone did.

[emshighway]

Anyone find a hi-res version of the photo? I want it for wallpaper for my work PC.

[LGA777]

Tom[/quote]
The Post's graphics dept. did a nice job cleaning it up. Glad someone did.[/quote]

Pretty sad that the Post fixed something that the US military did a lousy job of.

LGA777

[PhilDernerJr]

Biggest I've seen:

http://cdnll-9.liveleak.com/s/18/media18/2009/May/10/LiveLeak-dot-com-58b24130d097-hires_af1photo1cca.jpg?h=d72c609de32e6e74696ced286 10c6b96&e=1242665318&rs=150

The CAP was more successful, however:
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_CAP_Cessna_Skylane_182_Over_Statue_of_Liberty_ lg.jpg

[mirrodie]

I honestly think they did a decent job.
At the end of the day, none of us could pull it off.


Looking at that CAP photo though, could you imagine if AF1 flew that low? The people in Battery park would have been jumping in the water! :lol:

[T-Bird76]

I honestly think they did a decent job.
At the end of the day, none of us could pull it off.


Looking at that CAP photo though, could you imagine if AF1 flew that low? The people in Battery park would have been jumping in the water! :lol:

You know if they informed the city they may very well could have pulled off something like that and got a proper photo.