North American new service JFK-BWI

[Nonstop2AUH]

Can't believe I beat Phil to post this, and I had to read it twice to believe it, but apparently, North American will be offering service between JFK and BWI 4 days of the week starting 11/15. Not sure if it's 757 or 767 (as illustrated) but must be one of the shortest routes flown by type. Anyone up for an NYCA field trip?

http://www.mailpound.com/production/faxfiles/14712.htm

[flyboy 28]

It'd be great to see a 767 other than BA into BWI. Maybe NA should lease back some of their 738's? Seems like overkill to send a 767 or 757.

[cancidas]

is this happening because they're positioning the airplane down there anyway?

[Nonstop2AUH]

Hopefully our resident NAA employee will have more details, but while these flights don't appear on the schedule at flynaa.com, it can be gleaned from the flight numbers that these are a segment of the 767 service to LOS and ACC which are shown as one-stop from BWI and nonstop from JFK. Currently it seems that NAA operates an aircraft (sometimes 75 others 76) on certain days of the week between JFK and BWI but presumably that is a positioning on which tickets are not sold. Flying time per FlightAware is a whopping 30 minutes and it's done at under 20,000ft.

[flyboy 28]

but while these flights don't appear on the schedule at flynaa.com,

Sure they do. :wink:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c270/rimshot74/naajt.jpg

[Tom_Turner]

If I am remembering correctly, World Airways operated scheduled service between EWR and BWI for a brief time in the 1980s - with DC-10s.

Tom

[Nonstop2AUH]

Guess it's in the booking engine but not on the schedule page where it would show aircraft type:

http://www.flynaa.com/schedules.aspx

Still only shows GEO, ACC and LOS as winter destinations from JFK

[T-Bird76]

Please use the search function...it works wonders..

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7373&hilit=BWI (http://nycaviation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7373&hilit=BWI)

JFK-BWI is not bookable.

[Nonstop2AUH]

Tommy, according to the email link in my initial post, which I received today, it's bookable from 11/15. Introductory fares ($89 o/w) as well as terms and conditions are shown in the initial link.

[nwafan20]

It's bookable... I checked for January '08 and it allowed me to book (but I didn't)

[T-Bird76]

Tommy, according to the email link in my initial post, which I received today, it's bookable from 11/15.

Then NAA's website isn't working because I can't book it. $89 one way is a rip off for BWI, you can fly WN for 39 bucks one way half the time from ISP. Plus B6/US/and DL offer lower fares a good deal of the time to DCA and IAD. I guess NA is trying to fill some seats but I can't see anyone booking JFK-BWI on NAA.

[Nonstop2AUH]

I put in dates for November earlier today and it didn't allow me to select anything, so I went back and reread the announcement, sure enough says 11/15, days, times, fare, etc. but anyway tried December and some choices came up like Matt said they did for January. Tried November again just now and it came up, starting 11/15 etc.

[PHL Approach]

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/NAO134

As I figured, I'll be able to see them over my house. Woo hoo

[Smartass Flyboy]

If I recall it is because the ACC flight is now routed JFK-BWI-ACC.

[Matt Molnar]

It's actually BWI-JFK-ACC.

[bwione]

They are operating three days a week BWI-JFK-LOS and once weekly BWI-JFK-ACC. Most of the time they use the 767, but we do see the 757 on the BWI-JFK sector as well (it was in yesterday).

[PhilDernerJr]

I'd have posted this earlier, but I was out of town since Monday.

I am very excited that North American will be selling domestic tickets to BWI. We currently operate 3 flights a week BWI-JFK-LOS (and back) and once a week (Sunday) BWI-JFK-ACC (and back) on 767-300s, but sometimes we'll use a 757-200 on that BWI portion.

Many of our passengers get on/off in JFK, so we always have some open seats on BWI legs, and it only makes sense to offer that, which I myself have been suggesting for a while (red tape at airprots/government prevented it from happening sooner).

I understand that the flights are at $79 each before tax, which I think is a fair price, especially for those like us who want to take a short flight on a widebody with a sexy flag on the tail. ;)

An NYCA road trip sounds like an excellent idea though!

Let me know if any of you have other questions that I hope to be able to answer.

[T-Bird76]

I'd have posted this earlier, but I was out of town since Monday.

I am very excited that North American will be selling domestic tickets to BWI. We currently operate 3 flights a week BWI-JFK-LOS (and back) and once a week (Sunday) BWI-JFK-ACC (and back) on 767-300s, but sometimes we'll use a 757-200 on that BWI portion.

Many of our passengers get on/off in JFK, so we always have some open seats on BWI legs, and it only makes sense to offer that, which I myself have been suggesting for a while (red tape at airprots/government prevented it from happening sooner).

I understand that the flights are at $79 each before tax, which I think is a fair price, especially for those like us who want to take a short flight on a widebody with a sexy flag on the tail. ;)

An NYCA road trip sounds like an excellent idea though!

Let me know if any of you have other questions that I hope to be able to answer.

Phil its $89 one way not $79. Almost $200 r/t with tax to BWI from JFK is FAR from a fair price, infact its a total and complete rip off and anyone who spends that much is simply foolish. I can fly to LAX on a widebody for $50 more on AA, I can fly a 777 on DAL to ATL for less money most of time and the same to most Florida destinations on widebodies for less money. Comeon bro it's your airline but you know that is not a fair price. I'll pass on the "NYCA rip you off road trip to BWI." I'll fly WN meet you guys there with some money still in my pocket ;)

[adam613]

Phil its $89 one way not $79. Almost $200 r/t with tax to BWI from JFK is FAR from a fair price, infact its a total and complete rip off and anyone who spends that much is simply foolish. I can fly to LAX on a widebody for $50 more on AA, I can fly a 777 on DAL to ATL for less money most of time and the same to most Florida destinations on widebodies for less money. Comeon bro it's your airline but you know that is not a fair price. I'll pass on the "NYCA rip you off road trip to BWI." I'll fly WN meet you guys there with some money still in my pocket ;)

Um, $89 is a reasonable price to get from NYC to Baltimore. Amtrak's base fare for daytime trains is $87. You can fly WN for $49, but only from ISP.

Not that I'd ever get on a plane for a flight that short, but just saying...

[Matt Molnar]

Phil its $89 one way not $79. Almost $200 r/t with tax to BWI from JFK is FAR from a fair price...
It is comparable to fares to Boston, which is about the same distance. Ultimately flying from NYC to anywhere along the Northeast corridor between Boston and DC is foolish if you're trying to save money or time. Amtrak, or Greyhound, or Chinatown bus are far cheaper and often faster due to security and travel to/from city centers.

[PhilDernerJr]

I, too, was going to point out the train fares which are the same price or even higher. I've flown on Delta to BWI from JFK for tickets that are

When I compare it to other BWI flights that I've seen, especially last minute tickets (I understand our ticket prices will not rise if bought last minute), I think it's fair. If you disagree, then you don't have to fly it. I know ISP is more convenient for you anyway for several reasons anyway. I don't think one can compare ISP flights to any NYC flight anyway, but I'm not looking to debate that.

[T-Bird76]

I have to laugh that you guys think almost $200 with tax is a fair price r/t to BWI..... We're not even in the ball park of fair. NAA is about $80 to $100 higher then both B6, WN, and selected dates on US to the DC area. NAA IMO is a poor choice to the DC area from NYC and Long Island.

[Nonstop2AUH]

The only direct competition here to BWI specifically from JFK is American Eagle and Delta (Comair), services to IAD or DCA are not very convenient for those going to Baltimore and transferring to/from LGA, EWR, ISP or Penn Station is not very convenient for those who have an international flight connection at JFK. Now, we all know travel pricing is very fluid and based on many variables, including supply and demand, timing, etc. Some people look for value, some look for convenience, some look for the absolute lowest price. Travelzoo claims in its subway ads that they have flights "for the price of a slice," it's creative license of course but there is a certain segment of the population who will infer from that that any airline ticket that was more than $2.50 was a ripoff. When I first saw the NAA offer I popped some random dates into Kayak and on specifically JFK to BWI flight sectors on a roundtrip basis the NAA fare was lower than other nonstop JFK to BWI options for those short notice dates and for purchase at that time (could be different 5 minutes later). On another set of dates NAA was slightly higher but at least competitive. Will it always be? Nobody can say thanks to dynamic pricing algorithms and the fact that competition generally lowers prices across the board. But in certain cases and for certain people, especially those who want to go to Baltimore (not IAD or DCA which are not exactly close to Baltimore) and who book last minute as Phil points out, the NAA fare will be a good value.

[adam613]

I have to laugh that you guys think almost $200 with tax is a fair price r/t to BWI..... We're not even in the ball park of fair. NAA is about $80 to $100 higher then both B6, WN, and selected dates on US to the DC area. NAA IMO is a poor choice to the DC area from NYC and Long Island.

Flying between NYC and Baltimore is a poor choice no matter who you fly, unless you want to go from the suburbs of NYC (ISP) to the suburbs DC (IAD). For about the same fare on Amtrak, you get about 10 inches more legroom, a ride INTO the city (or to BWI airport), you're more likely to get there on time, and you can carry whatever liquids you want. And you can book last-minute; last time I went to DC, I showed up at the train station 30 minutes before my train with no ticket and the fare was $120.

But, if you have your heart set on flying, NAA isn't any worse than anyone else on that route.

[hiss srq]

I was thinking of flying NAA just to do it as the girlfriend is part time with North American so I might change it up a bit and try them out to BWI just to say I have flown them and than come home on one of my beloved DH8's.

[PhilDernerJr]

I must say that trains are very underrated, as I've said before.

[Nonstop2AUH]

Well if anyone wants to fly to BWI for lunch sometime let me know, I'd be up for it!

[PhilDernerJr]

Delta JFK-BWI for tomorrow: $608.

NAA walk-up for the same route: $89.

We're not expecting to dominate the route, but to offer an alternative for those who, in many situations, makes a lot of sense.

As for an NYCA day trip....maybe something can be setup. :)

Also keep in mind that Tommy is looking at this as a traveler's perspective. I think others here are look at this from an enthusiast's view, where people get the chance to have a new option for a trip on an airline that most wouldn't otherwise get a chance to experience (unless you're going to LOS, ACC, GEO or being deployed to war).

[NYCMedic]

The BWI flights will be on 765NA for the NA133-134 legs as often as possible.

The NA125-126 legs will vary between the 757s and 767s depending on availability and logistical need.

[nwafan20]

For me, I would much rather pay a slightly higher price to ride on a 767 for that short route....

Believe it or not, I can't remember ever flying on a widebody (my parents said I have, but I don't remember it)

[T-Bird76]

Walk up fares is totally different then advance fare. Yes the walk up fare to BWI can't be beat and in a heart beat I'd book it if I needed to get down to BWI or DC. But the advanced fare it is high compared to B6, WN, and others. NAA should have created two fares for the route, walk up and advanced. Yes I am looking at this from a traveler’s perspective vs. an enthusiast stand point, which in itself are two different perspectives.