NYT article on recent LGA runway incursion

[adam613]

There was an article in the Times this morning about a recent runway incursion at LGA, quoting the various players spreading blame:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/20/nyreg ... ardia.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/20/nyregion/20laguardia.html)

[MarkLawrence]

That's scary as well!! The DL/UA incident last week is causing a little more of a stir down here than usual in that the DL 757 was already on the ground when the UA entered the runway. The DL captain pushed all power and lifted it off again over the top of the UA A320...someone I think is in a little trouble...

[adam613]

That's scary as well!! The DL/UA incident last week is causing a little more of a stir down here than usual in that the DL 757 was already on the ground when the UA entered the runway. The DL captain pushed all power and lifted it off again over the top of the UA A320...someone I think is in a little trouble...

That's scary...I've always kind of wondered why there can't be some sort of automatic signaling system to ensure that only one aircraft enters the active runway at a time.

I also don't understand how FLL has as many runway incursions as it does. It's a pretty simple layout, and except for the rare occasion when they use 13/31, there's no reason for aircraft to be crossing the active runway.

[MarkLawrence]

My guess is that the UA was either on Delta or Echo and got distracted and went past Bravo to go to the holding point - that way - you are on 9L/27R pretty immediately! I suspect Delta in this case as they were saying that the UA plane was about 1/3 (3000 yards) down 9L.

[LGA777]

I am still amazed by ( and some of you might not be aware) that LGA gets many new controllers (trainees) though having been through the FAA's OKC training program are still new off the street and had not worked first a less active and stressful tower. It just seems with all the constraints at LGA (short and intersecting runways, very heavy air conjestion on the ground, in the air, and in the surrounding airspace) that this airport should be able to take new controllers with at least some previous controller experiance ? As we have a few controllers on these boards I welcome your feedback on this (I think) very serious subject.

Respecfully

LGA777

[adam613]

If I were a newly-minted controller, I wouldn't want to go anywhere NEAR LGA. I love a challenge as much as the next guy, but there's no way I'd feel I could be responsible for the safety of that airport unless I had experience at a somewhat less insane airport.

[PhilDernerJr]

That's scary...I've always kind of wondered why there can't be some sort of automatic signaling system to ensure that only one aircraft enters the active runway at a time.

There is one. That was the alarm that went off, as mentioned in the article.

[hiss srq]

Like Phil said, there is an incursion alert system at LGA. It was a new hire and the situation needs to go away in my opinion. Or in my opinion the media should stay out of it. Right now most of the issues currently being brought up are in the process of being fixed, solved and or addressed.

[cancidas]

the media really needs to stay out of aviation, either that or get some real "experts" who really know what they're talking about to explain our industry to the public. the fact of the matter is that this is really being blown out of proportion. yes, people's lives were in danger but that's why there are two living and breathing pilots in that front room of the airplane. situations like this require answers first, and solutions second. there is no room for dramatics but unfortunately that is all that today's media is good at.

as for the controller, there are a lot of new controllers coming out of the academy. while the training that they receive them prepares them for what they're going to do on a daily basis, you just can't simulate the environment of certain airports. i agree with ron, that airports like LGA shouldn't bring in new people right out of the academy. while learning on the hardest piece of hardware always made lesser hardware easier to operate that IMO shouldn't be the case with controllers.

i have yet to research this scenario fully, and am not going to pass judgement on it just yet. the alarm did go off in the tower and the situation was resolved. low staffing is something that the FAA claims they are working on, and i know a few controllers that were hired recently and a few other that just recieved thier papers to begin the process of going to OKC.

[LGA777]

Prior to about the mid nineties, because of my job I was fortunate enough to be able to jumpseat fairly often in this country and that includes multiple departures out of LGA. When landing 22 and departing 13 and you are in line for departure when ATC clears you to cross 4-22 with all the crews I ever flew with, the FO always looked both ways for traffic and advised the Captain it was clear before he/she taxied across the active runway. While this near miss was due to controller error and I am not trying to wrongly accuse the Comair crew of fault I cannot imagine if they had looked to their right and seen the DL 737 on the ground racing towards them they would have taxied across that active runway despite being instruced to by ATC. Again no disrespect or blaim from me is being directed at the Comair crew, it is only speculation on my part.

Respectfully,

LGA777

[cancidas]

you bring up a good point ron, and was something that all of my instructors drilled into my head time and time again. just because somebody said you're ok to do something doesn't always mean you are. CHECK IT YOURSELF!

[PhilDernerJr]

Yeah, good call. From my jumpseat experiences, I've ALWAYS seen the flight crew give a "clear left....clear right" when crossing EVERY taxiway or runway.