We photograph them but could we fly one?

[Ari707]

not for the pilots here: even though it can only happen in the movies but I'm sure we've all thought about it. If something happened to the flight crew do you think you could safely land a jetliner?

[nwafan20]

I believe that I could based on the fact that I basically know a commercial cockpit inside and out. At least enough to safely land it and fly it. I also have memorized most of the Vspeeds of various aircraft, and I have flown several different general aviation aircraft on my quest to a private pilots license.

[PhilDernerJr]

The big question. This question gets borught up by not nly enthusiasts, but I hear it among flight attendants and mechanics and everyone inthe industry.

I am pretty sure that if I was put in the situatiuon, that I could land a plane.

In all honesty, fromwhat I've witnessed in jumpseats, I seem to know all the basics, except the radio looks more complicated than anything! haha

As long as I can get in touch with a tower and get certain info for landing at an airport with longer than average runways, I can do it.

[emshighway]

I could fly it, landing is a whole other matter. As long is there isn't an inflatable auto pilot I guess I would be fine.

[moose135]

I could fly it, landing is a whole other matter. As long is there isn't an inflatable auto pilot I guess I would be fine.

Otto to the rescue!
http://www.renzamusings.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/otto.jpg

[AirtrafficController]

Its possible even at my age as I have flown on FSX so its possible. You just need to be cool and calm

[T-Bird76]

I've landed the 717 and 737s in the sim with the paramarters as real as they get, and no I'm not talking about Microsoft flightsim I'm talking about the real Boeing sims. If the tower can talk you through setting the nav systems following the flight director is really easy. In reality you probably wouldn't even have your hands on the stick anyway. The tower would more then likely have you set the nav system to autoland the plane. You'd just sit back and watch.

[PhilDernerJr]

I also have memorized most of the Vspeeds of various aircraft...

Don't they vary based on the weight and CG of the aircraft?

[lijk604]

I also have memorized most of the Vspeeds of various aircraft...

Don't they vary based on the weight and CG of the aircraft?

Yes they do.

[USAF Pilot 07]

I don't think most of us on here, with the exception of maybe one or two people, could "safely" land the airplane. If you've never flown anything to begin with, or anything like a larger airplane, how can you expect to know what actually flying a real airplane is really like, and then expect to safely land it?

I knew just about every single thing about the airplane I was flying last summer before stepping in the cockpit (in fact I was tested thoroughly on it), but nothing could have prepared me for that first flight. It was a feeling I've never felt, and even though I got the hang of it fairly quickly, there's no way I could have just taken over the controls and made a safe landing (without some luck on my side).

I think safely landing an airplane, and then taxiing it back to the gate, is a dream that many of us have had, and although it'd be nice to think we could do it, the reality is that without any, or with limited flight experience, most of us couldn't do it.

[nwafan20]

I also have memorized most of the Vspeeds of various aircraft...

Don't they vary based on the weight and CG of the aircraft?


They vary on Weight and CG of the aircraft, but in an emergency situation you need to have an idea of the Vspeeds (I.e. a good range) which I have memorized.

[nwafan20]

Its possible even at my age as I have flown on FSX so its possible. You just need to be cool and calm

FSX does not qualify you to land an airliner. That thing is NOT realistic in any way. No flight simulator you find on your computer is.

[PHL Approach]

I definately think I could land an airliner. I've learned every system on Boeings and Airbii. I've flown Airbus sims, I would like to get down to CLT and get even more time in Airbus sims and even some time if a 73 or 75. I've done pre-flight flightdeck workflows (aircraft prep) before a flight with Captains. Hell I even think I can descend on the arrival, do everything by the book using checklist - It would help to get someone to handle the radios though. Granted I could do it, I think I have learned great radio phraseology. But it's just to much work while getting the aircraft preped and what not. I would even say you know what - lets take her all the way into the gate and not stop on a taxiway.

[PHL Approach]

I also have memorized most of the Vspeeds of various aircraft...

Don't they vary based on the weight and CG of the aircraft?


They vary on Weight and CG of the aircraft, but in an emergency situation you need to have an idea of the Vspeeds (I.e. a good range) which I have memorized.

Why would you need too though - Go up on the FMC/CDU and go to Init and plug away at the soft keys and they'll be there.

[AirtrafficController]

Its possible even at my age as I have flown on FSX so its possible. You just need to be cool and calm

FSX does not qualify you to land an airliner. That thing is NOT realistic in any way. No flight simulator you find on your computer is.

hey be nice for once, this ain't a debate forum, anyway Flight Simulator does give you some knowledge in flight but its not pro training, it would help me in this situation but more or less, the autopilot and ATC will basically do the work. Just hope for good weather. :lol:

[moose135]

...Flight Simulator does give you some knowledge in flight but its not pro training, it would help me in this situation but more or less, the autopilot and ATC will basically do the work. Just hope for good weather. :lol:

Sitting in front of your PC playing pilot isn't anything like the real thing. Yes, it might help you with checklist procedures, and the location of the major instruments, but that's about it. I play FS every once in a while, and it's exactly that - playing. Not only isn't it "pro training", it's not really training at all. You get absolutely no feel for what the airplane is doing, I end up chasing the gauges trying to fly smoothly.

In a real life situation, the autopilot will only help you so much. If you get it all set up correctly, you may be able to fly it down the ILS, but in the end, you need to land it yourself. And I don't know what ATC will do for you. Yes they will give you headings, altitudes and frequencies, but they aren't going to be able to tell you how to work the systems. Some people have seen too many movies, where the airline sends a pilot up to the tower to talk you down.

Flying an airplane isn't hard, and landing isn't especially difficult, but it takes training to do it safely. To think that spending some time in front of a computer will prepare you to land an airliner is ridiculous.

You may think you can handle it, but imagine the scenario. For whatever reason, both pilots have become incapacitated. You decide you can help, and you go up to the cockpit. Assuming you don't hyperventilate from stress, you climb into the seat, in front of you are dozens of instruments, switches, lights, and other controls. Let's also assume you can use the autopilot to get to an airport and fly the approach. Now comes the hard part - you get down close to the ground and need to land this beast. Maybe there's some turbulence, maybe a crosswind, hopefully the weather isn't crap. The plane is bouncing around, the airspeed and sink rate are all over the place, and you have 100 tons of jet moving at 140kts, and only one shot at hitting a strip of concrete 200 feet wide. Did I mention there might be some stress? Good luck if this is the first time you've shot a landing for real.

If the flight attendant asks if anyone know how to fly an airplane, please don't raise your hand!

[N790SW]

I've landed the 717 and 737s in the sim with the paramarters as real as they get, and no I'm not talking about Microsoft flightsim I'm talking about the real Boeing sims. If the tower can talk you through setting the nav systems following the flight director is really easy. In reality you probably wouldn't even have your hands on the stick anyway. The tower would more then likely have you set the nav system to autoland the plane. You'd just sit back and watch.

What do you do if its a WN 737 with no autoland :shock: :wink:

[mirrodie]

I've landed the 717 and 737s in the sim with the paramarters as real as they get, and no I'm not talking about Microsoft flightsim I'm talking about the real Boeing sims.


Having been there and done the same in the Boeing sims, in the MD87, MD-90, a lot of times in the MD-11, 717 and 737s, I think I could do it.

But also say this judging by the feedback that many different instructors have given me. I'm pretty confident I could land a plane. I would need help with the radio and nav equipement though.

[Alex T]

No I could not do it.

As much flying as I have done as a pilot i still would not feel safe or comfortable.

I would understand the instructions and what is being said but to have me fly us down, not really.

Granted we probably know more then the average joe on the street which WOULD put us in a better position, however...ill let a certified pilot do the job if available!

Alex

[pgengler]

I'd like to think that I could probably put it down, but I wouldn't say it would be at all "safely".

[Clipper]

In a real life situation, the autopilot will only help you so much. If you get it all set up correctly, you may be able to fly it down the ILS, but in the end, you need to land it yourself.

CAT IIIB Auto land with auto brakes and auto spoilers will get any idiot on the ground. It won't do a nice flare but is better than crashing after running out of fuel. The next generation of Airbus will have BTV, Brake To Vacate, put in the taxi way you want to turn off and the AP will brake accordingly for the high speed turn off.

[Mateo]

While my PIC time is exactly 0.0, I have spent something like 200 hours in the right seat of a Bonanza (IFR and VFR), which is why I can say with absolute confidence -- not a chance, especially if it needs to be hand-flown.

[USAF Pilot 07]

I will add, that I sat in the jumpseat of a C-17 into Ramstein a few weeks back, and I would be just about willing to put money on the fact that someone with no real flying experience would not be able to land that kind of plane safely, without either causing significant structural damage, or going off the runway etc....

[hiss srq]

I am pretty sure I can do it as I have done it with smaller jets and regularly fly every type in the USAirways/Express fleet down in CLT on the sims and being very familliar in particular with our Airbus fleet and the Embraer product I could forsee a safe landing. If you can land a lear 25 you can land anything is what a captain I used to fly with used to tell me. Stay ahead of the plane, and do not let yourself get too low . Once your stabelized it is all about keeping your speeds on really. Once you have that covered minor minor correction . On a side note one thing I noticed about flying the 170/190 is that on final approach you really have to work to keep your speeds constant. Adding and reduceing power alot. The EMB170/190 will slow up real fast once you get her dirty.

[cancidas]

I am pretty sure I can do it as I have done it with smaller jets and regularly fly every type in the USAirways/Express fleet down in CLT on the sims and being very familliar in particular with our Airbus fleet and the Embraer product I could forsee a safe landing. If you can land a lear 25 you can land anything is what a captain I used to fly with used to tell me. Stay ahead of the plane, and do not let yourself get too low . Once your stabelized it is all about keeping your speeds on really. Once you have that covered minor minor correction . On a side note one thing I noticed about flying the 170/190 is that on final approach you really have to work to keep your speeds constant. Adding and reduceing power alot. The EMB170/190 will slow up real fast once you get her dirty.

spellman, if you read the first post this thread was for those of us who aren't pilots.



But also say this judging by the feedback that many different instructors have given me. I'm pretty confident I could land a plane. I would need help with the radio and nav equipement though.

you're the second person i heard that from, and you're right. flying is the easy part. figuring out how the other stuff works is harder. there's a lot of switches and stuff...

[moose135]

you're the second person i heard that from, and you're right. flying is the easy part. figuring out how the other stuff works is harder. there's a lot of switches and stuff...

Had a T-37 IP at UPT tell me he taught his dog to fly, but he kept getting dinged on his radio procedures :wink:

[lear45]

I believe that I could based on the fact that I basically know a commercial cockpit inside and out. At least enough to safely land it and fly it. I also have memorized most of the Vspeeds of various aircraft, and I have flown several different general aviation aircraft on my quest to a private pilots license.

I realize it says for those who are not pilots, but I have to speak up. Knowing a cockpit is great but you still have to be able to fly it. That autopilot has to come off at sometime and believe me, when it does, let the games begin! Also, you don't have to memorize items like V-speeds, they are in the FMS and the QRH(quick reference handbook). Not to be mean, but it is starting to pile high and deep in this thread. For 99 out of 100 people, not a chance. For those who have flown in the flight sims but not the real airplane, great, but let me tell you the sim is wonderful, but it still feels completely different from the airplane. I have done many, many sim training events now. Its not the movies. Yes, I know they make miracles happen there but lets snap back to reality. Autoland is not always an option either, some airplanes don't have it or it is not maintained to certification, it could kill you rather than save you, and you still have to have some knowledge of how to set it up and monitor it, there is not just a magic button that reads "land me" that you push. The FMS and the airplane only can do what you tell it to do and if you can't tell it what to do, it cannot do it, autoland being one. MS Flight Sim is great for procedures, but for flying a real airplane, absolutely not. Unless ATC brings in someone who knows that airplane to help talk you down , thats not happening either. ATC are great people, but most are not pilots, just the same if something happened in TRACON and you had to step in and bring these airplanes in, not happening. I would not know where to start in that environment.

A Cessna 172, maybe, a B757 or other airliner or corporate jet, I don't think so. There is a HUGE difference in flying jets and soooo many things that can get you into trouble. I have several thousand hours now and have flown and I am typed in the Lear 45, G-100/Astra, Kingair 350 and a couple of other Gulfstreams(not typed) and I am heading to the airlines here shortly. True, the bigger the airplane, the easier they seem to get for me, but that is because of the skills acquired along the way. Could I land a 757? No doubt about it. Would it be pretty? Probably not. Landing is always that variable that no matter how much experience you have, you are always trying to improve that skill, much less if you have never landed something like that before. That is why it takes 1 month to get a type rating in an airliner! Sorry guys, I had to chime in. No offense.

[nwafan20]

I believe that I could based on the fact that I basically know a commercial cockpit inside and out. At least enough to safely land it and fly it. I also have memorized most of the Vspeeds of various aircraft, and I have flown several different general aviation aircraft on my quest to a private pilots license.

I realize it says for those who are not pilots, but I have to speak up. Knowing a cockpit is great but you still have to be able to fly it. That autopilot has to come off at sometime and believe me, when it does, let the games begin! Also, you don't have to memorize items like V-speeds, they are in the FMS. Not to be mean, but it is starting to pile high and deep in this thread. For 99 out of 100 people, not a chance. For those who have flown in the flight sims but not the real airplane, great, but let me tell you the sim is wonderful, but it still feels completely different from the airplane. I have done many, many sim training events now. Its not the movies. Yes, I know they make miracles happen there but lets snap back to reality. Autoland is not always an option either, some airplanes don't have it or it is not maintained to certification, it could kill you rather than save you, and you still have to have some knowledge of how to set it up and monitor it, there is not just a magic button that reads "land me" that you push. The FMS and the airplane only can do what you tell it to do and if you can't tell it what to do, it cannot do it, autoland being one. MS Flight Sim is great for procedures, but for flying a real airplane, absolutely not. Unless ATC brings in someone who knows that airplane to help talk you down , thats not happening either. ATC are great people, but most are not pilots, just the same if something happened in TRACON and you had to step in and bring these airplanes in, not happening. I would not know where to start in that environment.

A Cessna 172, maybe, a B757 or other airliner or corporate jet, I don't think so. There is a HUGE difference in flying jets and soooo many things that can get you into trouble. I have several thousand hours now and have flown and I am typed in the Lear 45, G-100/Astra, Kingair 350 and a couple of other Gulfstreams(not typed) and I am heading to the airlines here shortly. True, the bigger the airplane, the easier they seem to get for me, but that is because of the skills acquired along the way. Could I land a 757? No doubt about it. Would it be pretty? Probably not. Landing is always that variable that no matter how much experience you have, you are always trying to improve that skill, much less if you have never landed something like that before. That is why it takes 1 month to get a type rating in an airliner! Sorry guys, I had to chime in. No offense.

This was in a strictly emergency situation scenario. I wouldn't go up and fly it unless I was the highest qualified person. I believe i could get it down with minimal injuries and structural damage, that's all. I am not a "flight sim" pilot who has only flown on FS. I am a student pilot (although haven't trained for a bit due to money). Like I said, I believe in an emergency I could do it.

[hiss srq]

I have to agree with Lear45 on this one.

[lear45]

I have to agree with Lear45 on this one.

I knew you would. :D

[lear45]

[/quote]This was in a strictly emergency situation scenario. I wouldn't go up and fly it unless I was the highest qualified person. I believe i could get it down with minimal injuries and structural damage, that's all. I am not a "flight sim" pilot who has only flown on FS. I am a student pilot (although haven't trained for a bit due to money). Like I said, I believe in an emergency I could do it.[/quote]

In an emergency is when you really have a hard time thinking even when you know what you are doing, much less when you have had no training in this particular airplane. In the sims when I do training, it is amazing how much you mess up during emergencies and I HAVE done it many times before in the sim, but it is really a lot to handle sometimes. Even if nothing is wrong with the airplane, just the pilots are incapacitated and cannot fly, it is still an emergency. I know you are not a "flight sim" pilot, but I am just trying to make a realistic point, and believe me, I undertand about the money and training to get your pilots license. I hate to think of how much I spent to get where I am at!

[hiss srq]

Here is something to crush your brains with in relation to flying a jet at least that I would like everyone WHO HAS NOT flown jets or at least done an introductory of sorts to flying jets and swept wing flight that you need to know. What is a Dutch Roll? And what device on jets is preventive or is assistive in preventing it I should say. And what can excite it? heheheheheheeh It does apply in light type aircraft but for the most part you won't kill yourself in a Cessna where as in a Jet you can. Also how about a Deep Stall and definition and this is without useing the cheeter tool (google)

[nwafan20]

Dutch roll is, without going into technicalities, a yaw roll. Yaw damper is the only thing that I can think of that will prevent it, And I would say that "hard" usage of the rudder would "excite it".

is a deep stall the same thing as a superstall? A superstall is basically when the tail is in the shadow of the wing, causing the elevator to not work due to lack of clean airflow... Are we talking about the same thing or is it something different?

[hiss srq]

Pretty accurate actually. No ofeense but it suprised me unless you used other resources to find it out.

[nwafan20]

Pretty accurate actually. No ofeense but it suprised me unless you used other resources to find it out.

What resources? I didn't use Google if that's what you were thinking ;). the knowledge of dutch roll came from flight training, about superstall (is that the same thing?), I actually learned that from hearing about the crash of the BAC 1-11 prototype, and then I did some reading up on it.... This was last year I believe.

[lear45]

Delta fins, like the Lear's have also prevents dutch roll and helps with stalling characteristics.

[hiss srq]

Not the 25 and the 35A ;) LOL

[lear45]

Not the 25 and the 35A ;) LOL

Oh yeah, I forgot, I must have Lear 45 on my brain. :wink:

[Laxgoaly]

Delta fins, like the Lear's have also prevents dutch roll and helps with stalling characteristics.

Delta Fins? do you mean Strakes?

On the Citation 750 ( Citation X ) the rudder utilizes a massive ( probably about 1/4 the size of the rudder ) Yaw Damper to counteract the effects of dutch roll...

[hiss srq]

The BE400 also has one but not quite as big. It is funny, it has a yaw damper but it lacks ailerons.

[lear45]

Delta fins, like the Lear's have also prevents dutch roll and helps with stalling characteristics.

Delta Fins? do you mean Strakes?

On the Citation 750 ( Citation X ) the rudder utilizes a massive ( probably about 1/4 the size of the rudder ) Yaw Damper to counteract the effects of dutch roll...

Delta Fins. We have them on the Lear 45 and we do not call them strakes, they are called Delta Fins.