JetBlue Passengers Describe Airport Tarmac Ordeal

[Midnight Mike]

Feb 15, 2007 4:10 am US/Pacific

JetBlue Passengers Describe Airport Tarmac Ordeal
Planes Were Grounded For 10 Hours Or More At JFK International

(AP) QUEENS, N.Y. Jet Blue Airlines apologized late Wednesday to dozens of passengers who were kept sitting on planes at New York's JFK International Airport for 10 hours or more without ever taking off, reports Andrew Kirtzman of WCBS-TV, the CBS affiliate in New York.

The airline said half of its 550 flights were cancelled because of a winter storm that also caused massive traffic and transit delays throughout the Tri-State area.

Ten JetBlue flights, however, were loaded with passengers on board. Some made it to the runways only to run into icing problems that kept them grounded. Some of the planes at the gate became frozen to the ground and passengers weren't able to disembark.

One couple told WCBS-TV they thought they were about to honeymoon in Aruba. Others said were dreaming of the sun and warm waters of Cancun. Instead, many described they felt like hostages being held on the tarmac.

"We had very limited toilet usage while we were on the plane," said Elizabeth Regale, who logged 10 hours of what she described as hell on a trip to nowhere.

"To sit on a plane for that long to be pulled into a gate for nine hours was horrible," said another passenger.

Early Thursday morning, the airline's Web site warned that other "flights to and from New York City (JFK, LaGuardia, Stewart and Newark, NJ), Boston, Washington D.C. and Upstate New York (Rochester and Buffalo) may be delayed or canceled." It urged passengers to check the status of their flight before heading to their local airports.

JetBlue's apology said anyone stuck on one of its flights for more than three hours Wednesday would receive a full refund and a free roundtrip ticket for a future flight.

Some, however, were in no mood to accept that apology.

"Disorganized. No one knows anything. It's all chaos," one passenger said.

[Matt Molnar]

Currently the top headline on Drudge. Not a good day to be a jetBlue PR rep.

[RDU-JFK]

I'm sure this answer was addressed in another thread, but I just don't understand--the weather was so poor and it wasn't getting better. Why couldn't they return to the gate after 3 or 4 hours??

[T-Bird76]

Last night I sat on the ramp for four hours as cargo was loaded on our plane. They said because of the ice it was hard to load the containers, then we waited an hour for deicing finally lifting off at 2:15 AM. However Cathy Pacific made everyone very comfortable, hot towels for all, free drinks, snacks, and allowed free movement around the cabin. I'm not surprised by jetBlue's actions, honestly their service has been going downhill for the past year and half. There is big disconnect between front line employees and management there and its showing.

[PhilDernerJr]

I'm surprised that an airline that operates a dialy flight somewhere would hold up a plane for cargo. I'm sure it couldbe that it accounts for most of their money ont he flight or if they know they would never have room for it on the next flight out, but to hold up passenger for four hours seems like their priorities should be different.

[Matt Molnar]

I'm sure this answer was addressed in another thread, but I just don't understand--the weather was so poor and it wasn't getting better. Why couldn't they return to the gate after 3 or 4 hours??
I'm guessing the gates were occupied. Still, do something. With jetBlue's track record of going out of their way to make customers happy during difficult circumstances (i.e. during the 2003 blackout they had a few Mister Softee trucks come to JFK to cheer up the passengers sitting in their un-air-conditioned terminal), this is very disappointing.

[mirrodie]

Just an observation, but it's interesting to see that an LCC like Jblue is actually prone to pain, just like the legacy carriers.


"You see, he's not a machine!" -Rocky IV

[RDU-JFK]

"You see, he's not a machine!" -Rocky IV


hahaha "I break you".

[mirrodie]

Oh and another thought:

Where was Neelman during all this? He is usually notorious for being on the aircraft and mixing and mingling with passengers. THis is a good thing.

Perhaps if he had been doing that on the planes on the tarmac, it might have lessened the blow.

[T-Bird76]

I'm surprised that an airline that operates a dialy flight somewhere would hold up a plane for cargo. I'm sure it couldbe that it accounts for most of their money ont he flight or if they know they would never have room for it on the next flight out, but to hold up passenger for four hours seems like their priorities should be different.

The funny thing that cargo from a revenue standpoint is worth more then the passenger revenue, I guess there are contracts and what not that have to be honored. Evergreen does Cathy's ground handling and they looked like clowns on the ramp, doing dounuts, BSing in the snow and ice.

[Matt Molnar]

Oh and another thought:

Where was Neelman during all this? He is usually notorious for being on the aircraft and mixing and mingling with passengers. THis is a good thing.

Perhaps if he had been doing that on the planes on the tarmac, it might have lessened the blow.

I don't think the CEO being there would make me forget I was sitting on a stank plane for 10 hours. Even after three hours I would probably be pretty livid.

[mirrodie]

Very true. But it might have given the perception of caring if this particular CEO was out amongst the masses, as he usually is ;)

[Matt Molnar]

They're in full damage-control mode it seems. They've changed their weather policy for this storm twice already today. By the end of tomorrow I think they might be letting everyone fly free!

• Yesterday at 10:40am, they announced that anyone flying in the Northeast on February 14th could rebook and travel through the 16th.
• Today at 3:25am, they announced anyone flying jetBlue anywhere today could rebook without penalty to travel through March 20th, or convert their ticket to a credit for future travel.
• As of 10 minutes ago, they are offering anyone flying jetBlue today through Monday the option of rebooking for travel through May 22nd, or converting their ticket to a credit.

[Matt Molnar]

AGAIN: A jetBlue PIT-JFK flight has been stuck on the tarmac at PIT for at least seven hours due to "frozen brakes." Passengers might be deplaned soon, according to a report.

[mirrodie]

I found this funny...

from CBS Late Show w David Letterman
Thursday, February 15, 2007

Top Ten JetBlue Excuses
Top Ten



10. 10-hour delay? Hey, that's actually pretty good for us

9. It could have been worse... No, wait, it couldn't

8. We don't have an excuse right now, but sit here for ten hours while we come up with one

7. Hey, it takes that long to open a bag of airline peanuts, am I right, ladies and gentleman?

6. You gotta admit, after 6 hours it became a little funny

5. It's still better than flying Delta

4. There was a monster on the wing!!!

3. (No number 3 -- writer still stuck on the plane)

2. Who could leave New York in the middle of Ventriloquist Week?

1. Pilots too drunk to fly

[mirrodie]

# 8 is funny, number 4 is a GREAT classic reference, for the hitchcock fans.

[Mellyrose]

Hitchcock? I thought that was Twilight Zone with John Lithgow's character. That is pretty friggin funny though!

[moose135]

Hitchcock? I thought that was Twilight Zone with John Lithgow's character. That is pretty friggin funny though!

It was from the Twilight Zone, although the Lithgow version in the TZ movie was a remake from the original television series, with William Shatner as the man who saw the monster on the wing.

You're forgiven though, Mel. That episode aired in 1963, long before you started watching TV.

[Mellyrose]

Oooooh. It's not my fault that I'm too young to know better :-P

[mirrodie]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d4/PubTThou01.jpg

With Shatner, what a classic! (my bad with the credit ot Hitchcock though.) I never saw the version with Lithgow though. Worth seeing? What was the movie like?



Of interesting note, read the "trivia" portion fron this link. Mentions Western Airlines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightmare_at_20,000_Feet_(The_Twilight_Zone)

[Matt Molnar]

http://www.cheesebus.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/b6whahappen.gif

[Mellyrose]

Phil D. to the rescue!!!!!



(not to take it off-topic, but yes, Twilight Zone: The Movie (1983) was a pretty good one....it's a bunch of different shorts - you should check it out)

[moose135]

With Shatner, what a classic! (my bad with the credit ot Hitchcock though.) I never saw the version with Lithgow though. Worth seeing? What was the movie like?

Of interesting note, read the "trivia" portion fron this link. Mentions Western Airlines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightmare_at_20,000_Feet_(The_Twilight_Zone)

I saw that trivia bit, sounded like a great plan, too bad it didn't work out.

I saw the movie years ago - it was OK, but nothing too exciting. There were 4 stories, 3 remakes of the series, and one original. Don't remember two of the remakes, the third was the Lithgow remake of the airliner bit. The movie is probably best remembered for what happened during filming of the final segment - actor Vic Morrow played a racist trapped in various settting - Nazi Germany, Viet Nam, etc. He and two child actors were killed during the filming of the Viet Nam portion, when an explosion caused a helicopter accident.

[nwafan20]

Hmm, a JetBlue 757? anyone get any pics of that? :D

[Mellyrose]

Hint: It's painted blue and white, but doesn't have a funky tail.

[nwafan20]

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairl ... d=00000047 (http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/search/photo_search.php?id=00000047) that looks pretty good!

[Matt Molnar]

By the way, that wasn't a FlightAware mistake. jetBlue has resorted to renting planes to clear out the glut of passengers stuck at JFK for the past two days.

[nwafan20]

Seriously? Awesome!!

Who did they rent it from?

[mirrodie]

BTW,

By the way, I think I know OMGWTF, but BBQ? What is the BBQ?



Back on topic..... think David Neeleman was a slight resemblance to the gremlin out on the wing?!

[Matt Molnar]

Who did they rent it from?


Phil D. to the rescue!!!!!

Hint: It's painted blue and white, but doesn't have a funky tail.
:wink:

[nwafan20]

OMGWTFBBQ: Oh My God, What the F*ck, Barbecue (yes, it is barbecue)

It is pretty much mocking the acronyms out there, or used is used in the context of a very hyper OMG WTF.

Gotham, I don't know what other airlines are painted in blue and white, and what Phil has to do with it. I'm very confused on that part! ;)

[Matt Molnar]

By the way, I think I know OMGWTF, but BBQ? What is the BBQ?


Originating from somethingawful.com, this word was originally used as a surname for one of the writers there. It was meant to mock the use of acronyms on games such as Starcraft and programs like AIM. It was popularized, ironically, when people began to say it as rejection of people who overused these phrases.

Starcraft Player #1: OMG ZERG RUSH!!! WTF I HATES JOO!!!
Korean Player: OMGWTFBBQ, KEKEKE!!!

It can be interpreted simply as gibberish, when one wants to emphasize one's own incoherence, lack of understanding, or used when one wants to emphasize one's own awesome abilities, such as the power to make really good waffles.
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/c/c6/Omgwtfbbq.jpg

[Mellyrose]

Ah! The Swedish Chef....shmirnynerpnorneernornorMORKMORKMORK!



Gotham, I don't know what other airlines are painted in blue and white, and what Phil has to do with it. I'm very confused on that part! ;)

Think about airlines that are painted blue and white and fly 757s out of JFK who could be chartered for this type of subservice.

[nwafan20]

Would it happen to be a North American 757?

[JetBlueAirwaysFan]

Well, jetBlue really f**ked up this one! (Excuse my language). Everyone deserves a free ticket on JetBlue plus trueBlue points for the members. I know some already got free tickets, but they all should get one.

[Mellyrose]

Would it happen to be a North American 757?

Yessirreee.

[mirrodie]

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0785111/L/


Might look like this livery... ;)

[PhilDernerJr]

Who did they rent it from?

JetBlue hired subservices from Omni (752), ATA (753) and North American (752) to cover flights.

The flight above (in the pic) was the North American one which I was on. I had to fly JFK-FLL-JFK-FLL-JFK over the last 25 hours. Tiresome but lots of fun. I can honestly say that JetBlue was handling it all pretty well considering how many people were in their terminals.

[LGA777]

I am glad to see B6 was intelligent enough to sub-service from other carriers to move their customers. I was very surprised Frontier did not do this during their DEN meltdown right before Christmas. BTW B6's third bad day in a row made all three of the major networks National news Friday night and it was not favorable coverage.

Regards

LGA777

[LGA777]

Tonight I was home babysitting my 4 1/2 month old daughter and while I was entertaining her I was also listening to JFK ground, trying to start her aviation interest when her Mom is not around. Anway this guy landed using a B6 callsign and I heard something pretty wild, Jetblue 4014 HEAVY !

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/JBU4014

As this was a sub flight from ATA really confused that ATA would use a B6 callsign when I am almost certain ATA actually dispatched the flight. The ground controller actually mistakenly identified it as B6 operated by North American.

Cheers

LGA777

[LGA777]

JetBlue 4115 Heavy, DC-10 (Omni ?) just landed JFK from ATL, I assume on position for Tommorow.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/JBU4115


LGA777

[T-Bird76]

I am glad to see B6 was intelligent enough to sub-service from other carriers to move their customers. I was very surprised Frontier did not do this during their DEN meltdown right before Christmas. BTW B6's third bad day in a row made all three of the major networks National news Friday night and it was not favorable coverage.

Regards

LGA777

Ron they really don't have the choice, B6 doesn't have the capacity to deal with situations like this and they made it worse by removing further capacity in 2006. I really use to like B6 but the last few times I've flown them I've been delayed by more then three hours. They expanded to fast and bit off more then they could chew. Just compare their revenue with other airlines they are performing the worst for an airline of their size. They still are making tech stops on transcons this year bc the 320s can't make it. They made some really bad decisions in the last two years and its we're seeing it now.

[nwafan20]

Wow, A DC-10, must have really had a lot of customers to get to ATL!

[Iberia A340-600]

Wow, A DC-10, must have really had a lot of customers to get to ATL!

jet Blue doesn't fly to ATL Matt. :wink:

As mentioned it must be a repositioning flight coming in from ATL as an Omni flight and out to MCO as a jet Blue one.

[nwafan20]

Whoops, sorry.

So you think it went ATL-JFK-MCO?

[LGA777]

I have been listening to the jetBlue circus on JFK ground control for several interesting hours. There are currently two DC-10's their, one going to LAS, JBU 4115 to LAS, and 4104 to MCO, both appeared to have ferried up from ATL. It seems only Gate 4 will hold a DC-10. so 4104 has been holding for Gate 4 about 2 hours. When LAS departs the MCO ten will come to the gate. Most inbounds have held for a gate for a while, one recent one got priority for a gate due to two seperate Medical Emergencies onboard, another has a security issue but have turned down assistance and are dealing with B6 corportate security. There is also a 757-200 (I assume North American) going to SJU and an ATA 753 going to MCO!

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/JBU4115

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/JBU4106

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/JBU4015


Regards

LGA777

[hiss srq]

I am glad B6 is doing this. We need to do this I would say because I am personally getting tired of searching out other airlines to send passengers out on because we cannot fufill our needs right now.

[Iberia A340-600]

Wow a DC-10 at Terminal 6 must be a quiet a sight!

Thanks for keeping us updated Ron.

[Matt Molnar]

JetBlue Airways Pre-Cancels 23 Percent of its Scheduled Flights for Feb. 17 and Feb. 18, 2007

NEW YORK, Feb. 17, 2007 (PRIME NEWSWIRE) -- JetBlue Airways today
announces that it has pre-cancelled 23 percent of its Saturday, Feb. 17
and Sunday, Feb. 18 schedule in order to reset the operation by
positioning all aircraft and allowing flight crews to reset their
operating clocks. Further cancellations may occur throughout the
operating days.

The airline has canceled all flights to and from the following cities
for Saturday, Feb. 17 and Sunday Feb. 18:

Austin, TX
Bermuda
Charlotte, NC
Columbus, OH
Houston, TX
Jacksonville, FL
Nashville, TN
Pittsburgh, PA
Portland, ME
Raleigh/Durham, NC
Richmond, VA

[njgtr82]

JFK had a ground stop this morning for a few hours for B6 aircraft only, I'm assuming they still have a lack of gates?

[PhilDernerJr]

Ron was right, it was an Omni DC-10.

The fligth from ATL was an empty ferry flight, to reposition the aircraft to pick up passengers. The flight then went to fly pax to Las Vegas.

[INTENSS]

JetBlue still needs a bit more lift...and a bit "more" lift is coming :)


-Rich

[PhilDernerJr]

That sounds like a teaser of some sort. Spill it!

[LGA777]

My money is on a World MD11

LGA777

[PhilDernerJr]

That's what I was thinking about your guess with the DC-10. I thought it would be World.

[LGA777]

Just found this DC-10 inbound to JFK from LGB, then looks like a ferry to BWI. Is this Omni or World ?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/JBU4117

LGA777

[INTENSS]

That sounds like a teaser of some sort. Spill it!

Still working out the details.....you know how it works. :P


Just found this DC-10 inbound to JFK from LGB, then looks like a ferry to BWI. Is this Omni or World ?

That one would be Omni....they've had plenty of planes just sitting.


-Rich

[Matt Molnar]

Better be something good with all this suspense, like an A346 rented from Virgin. :D

[moose135]

Just found this DC-10 inbound to JFK from LGB, then looks like a ferry to BWI. Is this Omni or World ?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/JBU4117

LGA777

It was an Omni bird. Tommy, Josh May and I were at Firestone to catch her:

http://moose135.smugmug.com/photos/130255711-L.jpg

[Nonstop2AUH]

I'm going to take a wild guess that the big teaser is they found a way to charter the VA and SkyBus A320s that have been largely sitting around unused. As the planes actually belong to banks/leasing companies, they can probably be flown by any certified operator (e.g., Jetblue) even if VA itself can't operate them.

[Iberia A340-600]

Awesome shot of her moose!

[FlyingColors]

I'm sure this answer was addressed in another thread, but I just don't understand--the weather was so poor and it wasn't getting better. Why couldn't they return to the gate after 3 or 4 hours??

"Meanwhile, back at the ranch..."
and the question at hand.

WHY can't they go back after a few hours!?

[Matt Molnar]

JetBlue Extends Operational Recovery Through Monday, Feb. 19
NEW YORK, Feb. 17, 2007 (PRIME NEWSWIRE) -- JetBlue Airways this
evening announces further operational recovery programs through Monday,
Feb. 19. Details include:

Canceling 23 percent of Monday, Feb. 19 operations, including but not
limited to all flights to and from the following JetBlue destinations:
Same cities that were canceled Saturday and Sunday.

I know very little about airline logistics, but is this really bad compared to when other airlines' hubs get crippled by a storm, or has the media blown it out of proportion? For comparison, when EWR gets hit, is CO a disaster for five full days? NW at DTW?

[INTENSS]

I know very little about airline logistics, but is this really bad compared to when other airlines' hubs get crippled by a storm, or has the media blown it out of proportion? For comparison, when EWR gets hit, is CO a disaster for five full days? NW at DTW?

The airline has not handled it very well....that's all I have to say.

-Rich

[nwafan20]

Yeah, it has to be Jeblue not handling it well.

Northwest had one incident like this with weather as you probably all remember, but it only lasted until the storm ended. A few planes stuck out on the runways and taxiways and couldn't move for like 9 hours, but they were able to get back to the gate after that, and NW was at full operation within the hour.

[PhilDernerJr]

I understand that a lot of this was because Jetblue expected the weather to ease up, and not worsen. So, they filled up their planes and left the gates to go que up for de-icing and to leave once the weather calmed down some. Then there was a shortage on de-icing fluid, and their gates became occupied by empty planes for the next wave of flights. So, there were so many planes all over that it became difficult to handle/manage/corrdinate/move, especially once the weather got worse.

Ultimately, the problem was that they expected the best in terms of weather scenario, and the airport ran low on de-icing fluid.

[FlyingColors]

Yeah, it has to be Jeblue not handling it well.

Northwest had one incident like this with weather as you probably all remember, but it only lasted until the storm ended. A few planes stuck out on the runways and taxiways and couldn't move for like 9 hours, but they were able to get back to the gate after that, and NW was at full operation within the hour.

So getting back to the gate is some sort of major accomplishment, after 9+ hours of unjustifiable incarceration?!

Were not just talking about sheer boredom and Aunt Poly waiting at arrivals looking for Sonny boy as the only consequence.
This could be a deadly affair for the elderly, someone with a blood clot situation or has to eat and take medication on time. Feel free to add on a host of other medical situations like this.

Passengers have done there part to gauge their time frame, 2 hours flight + expected delays can and do happen and are accounted for, but not 10 hours!

Again, WHY can't a plane return after a few hours????

And don't say "full gates". After 2 plus hours get a damn set of stairs and a bus.

[FlyingColors]

I understand that a lot of this was because Jetblue expected the weather to ease up, and not worsen. So, they filled up their planes and left the gates to go que up for de-icing and to leave once the weather calmed down some. Then there was a shortage on de-icing fluid, and their gates became occupied by empty planes for the next wave of flights. So, there were so many planes all over that it became difficult to handle/manage/corrdinate/move, especially once the weather got worse.

Ultimately, the problem was that they expected the best in terms of weather scenario, and the airport ran low on de-icing fluid.

I'm sorry, but with the exuberant NYNJPA budget, this can't be legit.
This is not the first year an airport and aviation has faced winter. This is the Northeast, and its just another day at the office.
The "storm" did not last for weeks.
Anyone projecting the image de-icing fluid is low is merely bucking to jack up the spending budget, and they do so any which way they can.

[nwafan20]

Yeah, it has to be Jeblue not handling it well.

Northwest had one incident like this with weather as you probably all remember, but it only lasted until the storm ended. A few planes stuck out on the runways and taxiways and couldn't move for like 9 hours, but they were able to get back to the gate after that, and NW was at full operation within the hour.

So getting back to the gate is some sort of major accomplishment, after 9+ hours of unjustifiable incarceration?!

Were not just talking about sheer boredom and Aunt Poly waiting at arrivals looking for Sonny boy as the only consequence.
This could be a deadly affair for the elderly, someone with a blood clot situation or has to eat and take medication on time. Feel free to add on a host of other medical situations like this.

Passengers have done there part to gauge their time frame, 2 hours flight + expected delays can and do happen and are accounted for, but not 10 hours!

Again, WHY can't a plane return after a few hours????

And don't say "full gates". After 2 plus hours get a damn set of stairs and a bus.

I'm not making an excuse for anything, but durring that time, we got about 2 feet of snow in a short amount of time, you couldn't move an aircraft if you tried. I wasn't making an excuse for NW, just merely saying they handled it much better than JetBlue.

Northwest Airlines ended up paying 7M in compensation to the passengers. Unlike JetBlue, once the storm passed and DTW opened back up, NWA was back to full operation within the hour.

[INTENSS]

I'm not making an excuse for anything, but durring that time, we got about 2 feet of snow in a short amount of time, you couldn't move an aircraft if you tried. I wasn't making an excuse for NW, just merely saying they handled it much better than JetBlue.

Northwest Airlines ended up paying 7M in compensation to the passengers. Unlike JetBlue, once the storm passed and DTW opened back up, NWA was back to full operation within the hour.

That's because NWA has alot of experience in adverse situations...NWA Ops is prepared for this sort of thing. It's clear that JetBlue was not.

-Rich

[nwafan20]

INTENSS, that is basically what I was attempting to say. You just said in 2 sentences what took me 4 paragraphs to say, can I take lessons? ;)

[FlyingColors]

OHG...7M?!
Wow :shock:
Perhaps the wait was not that bad after all :lol:

[T-Bird76]

This comes down to a total operational break down at B6 and IMO as I stated in another post I feel questions B6s safety practices. This isn't the first time its happened to them. Last year they were backlogged with passengers. Other airlines simply canceled their flights so when the storm past their planes would be where they needed them to be. The New York market is not one you want to screw with and B6 did a good job of creating a total cluster ****. They better have a damage control plan ready to roll or they are going to lose even more money then they already have. They are in a very bad spot right now.

[Matt Molnar]

They are in a very bad spot right now.
Agreed. It will be impossible to undo the PR damage done by this mess. From now on, travelers are going to have major reservations about booking jetBlue flights during the winter regardless of price.

[LGA777]

Then there was a shortage on de-icing fluid,

and the airport ran low on de-icing fluid.

Not sure about B6 @ JFK but at my carrier at LGA we order and supply the deicing fluid, we DO NOT run out in Winter and if this was the Port at JFK's fault I would be surprised, if this is (I suspect) a B6 issue shame on them. You don't run out of fluid right before one of the biggest Winter travel weekends with freezing precip forecasted.

In defense though I worked that afternoon and the 734, 319, 321, and CR7 we deiced took about 3 times as long as usual due to condition of and type of frozen precip.

Regards

LGA777

[Nonstop2AUH]

One of JetBlue's senior execs was once quoted as saying that they outsource alot of operational functions (e.g. heavy maintenance to El Salvador) because management does not consider them to be "core," i.e. important to the customer. This sort of thing, i.e. focusing on the brand and customer "touchpoints," works very well in theory and Wall Street loves the concept (as they did when Valujet was doing something similar), but could it have played a part in the meltdown here?

In other words, since JetBlue does not control as much of its operation in house as other carriers, when something like this affects the system, there are more outsourced vendors and partners in different places to have to reset. Any comments?

[nwafan20]

OHG...7M?!
Wow :shock:
Perhaps the wait was not that bad after all :lol:

Well, that was for about 3,000 PAX, so around $2,500 per PAX, still not to shabby!

[T-Bird76]

I can't wait to see what B6's stock price does this week.

[nwafan20]

Can you say "Wow, I never knew a stock price could fall that quickly!!"? ;)

[moose135]

Just heard on the news that JetBlue is saying they will be "80%" Monday and Tuesday, but it will be Wednesday before they are back to normal.

[Iberia A340-600]

A comment I read on Airliners.Net got me thinking there next A320 delivered should be named:

"Winter Storm Blues"

[nwafan20]

A comment I read on Airliners.Net got me thinking there next A320 delivered should be named:

"Winter Storm Blues"

Wow! Good one! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Matt Molnar]

New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/19/business/19jetblue.html?ei=5090&en=59dbe261ee0abf18&ex=1329541200&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print):

JetBlue’s C.E.O. Is ‘Mortified’ After Fliers Are Stranded

February 19, 2007
By JEFF BAILEY

The founder and chief executive of JetBlue Airways, his voice cracking at times, called himself “humiliated and mortified” by a huge breakdown in the airline’s operations that has dragged on for nearly a week, and promised that in the future JetBlue would pay penalties to customers if they were stranded on a plane for too long.

Great article, read the rest here (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/19/business/19jetblue.html?ei=5090&en=59dbe261ee0abf18&ex=1329541200&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print).

Noteworthy points:
• Neeleman concedes his management team sucks
• Most jetBlue telephone agents are outsourced housewives working from home part-time in the Salt Lake City area (better than Bangalore I suppose)
• The staff in charge of dispatching crews is only a fraction of the size it should be for the number of employees they have, which left pilots and crews who were able to work unable to reach base to let them know they were available
• A shortage of de-icer is not mentioned

[Matt Molnar]

Advertising Age (http://adage.com/article?article_id=115067) analyzes the effects of this debacle on jetBlue's PR and marketing:

Management's Misjudgement Gives JetBlue a Black Eye
Passengers Stranded Bruise Carrier's Customer-Service Reputation

By Rich Thomaselli

Published: February 19, 2007
NEW YORK (AdAge.com) -- In today's 24/7 media world even the best brands are only ever one horrible misstep away from a PR disaster. Just ask JetBlue.

[snip]

"They blew it," said Steve Danishek, a Seattle travel-industry analyst. "Now it affects their brand. The cost they would have incurred to unload the planes, while high, they could have written off as goodwill. Now they have no goodwill."

[Nonstop2AUH]

The Times article is fascinating, I've never seen a CEO of a publicly traded, service oriented company essentially confess that his team is not up to the task they are quite well paid to do.

I don't know much about B6, but I do know about economics and the accountability of management at public companies and Bethune sort of hits the nail on the head; these guys found themselves out of their league when the proverbial s--t hit the fan because of their background. NYC is not Salt Lake City and this company is far larger and more complex an enterprise than Morris Air or whatever Neeleman ran before. Beyond Neeleman, the impression I get is that most execs at JetBlue are marketing (as opposed to operations) oriented, but please correct me if I am wrong because I am not bashing, I am just making an observation.

Now, as for the stock, the day of the storm, the most influential investment firm, Goldman Sachs, upgraded JBLU to a buy based on improving profit margins. One way profit margins improve is by keeping costs down (the other is by raising prices). I don't think they are in a position to raise fares now, but I think they will take a one time charge for this event, and of course make a few changes. If the stock dips, it might even be a buying opportunity because unless they have to meaningfully rethink their lean, outsourcing-intensive business model and incur new major ongoing costs, it will probably be back to business as usual in a few months.

[PhilDernerJr]

Jetblue is one of the only airlines at the airport that does there own deicing, right?

As for what they planes didn't come back to the gate (which a few asked, esp. Mike P) the planes were also completely immobile because of the snow and they were literally frozen to the ground.

Similarly trapped at first were the big buses that carry passengers from hardstands, which is a Port Authority thing, not a JetBlue thing.

I'm not trying ot make excuses for JetBlue, but there were several factors that they couldn't control that "buried them" deeper. But, all of this happened because of poor planning.

[moose135]

But, all of this happened because of poor planning.

Come on, Phil - who expected snow and ice in the Northeast in February? :D

[hiss srq]

And the downward death spiral begins! (Ducks punches from all angles)

[Mateo]

There were lots of circumstances beyond JBU's control, but this comes at a very critical time for the airline. The Airbusses are now 7 years into a mx schedule, the pilots are 7 years up the seniority scale, and the Embraers are still coming.

The airline has been fairly bulletproof so far, and they're a known quantity in their big markets of NYC, South Florida, and Southern California. It's all those secondary markets - the places like Raleigh and Austin and Pittsburgh where this may be a customer's first impression of the brand, and it's not a positive one.

[Matt Molnar]

According to CBS Radio, JetBlue has again delayed their return to regular service. Originally they said they'd be running 100% tomorrow morning, but they now expect to cancel about 10% of Tuesday's flights and are aiming for a full return Wednesday — a full week after the storm.

[hiss srq]

JetBlue is really in some trouble here. I do not think by any means their attitude indicator will be completely brown from this one but they will defineately need to add power and use some elbow grease to pull up out of this one.

[Nonstop2AUH]

This morning I happened to catch the CNBC 2-hour documentary about the operations of American Airlines. I am not a huge fan of AA's service, but something that struck me was how, in both labor and management, everyone seemed incredibly focused on doing their job. Perhaps this is because of the company's long history or a legacy of pulling together after 9/11 to save the company from bankruptcy.

Whatever the reason, I found myself contrasting this model of focus and working together with the business model of JetBlue, a much younger company (so far successfully) based on marketing, outsourcing and run by a man praised by the business media and Wall Street for having attention deficit disorder. I found myself asking, in a crisis, do you want a company run by a guy who is easily distracted? I really wonder if part of the problem here is that someone with ADD is probably not the kind of guy who can sit in an ops center for several days and get things under control. I would never be so simplistic as to say "Arpey is better than Neeleman" but it seems like in a crisis situation, you need the guy in charge to be able to pay attention.

[mirrodie]

Phil, I heard the same CBS Radio quip this morning but what caught my ear was that they said Neeleman apologized and said that he was "humiliated and mortified."

Humiliated and mortified. Those are potentially dangerous words to throw out. Perhaps he should have stopped at "sorry"


Whatever the reason, I found myself contrasting this model of focus and working together with the business model of JetBlue, a much younger company (so far successfully) based on marketing, outsourcing and run by a man praised by the business media and Wall Street for having attention deficit disorder.

Well, I won't comment there. 95% of this forum has ADD and we do quite well.

Now what were you saying?

[hiss srq]

I hear that mr Neelman is a very colorful person from a pal of mine. I think that the words uttered by him made him sound like he was not in control of the situation not even in the least which is a false statement at any level.

[mirrodie]

And in other news, Herb Kelleher of WN fame, commented, saying, "I can only describe their situation as....nuts."

[hiss srq]

(looks for Alex's head to pop out and utter Southwest? NUTS!?)

[FlyingColors]

But, all of this happened because of poor planning.

Come on, Phil - who expected snow and ice in the Northeast in February? :D

Crazy, right?

[cancidas]

but it was valentine's day... it's not supposed to snow until after you're in bed with the other half...

[PhilDernerJr]

Neeleman was just on Fox and Friends, kissin butt, but seemingly doing a good job of convincing people that this won't happen again.

[LGA777]

Actually if there where a significant weather even in the next month it could happen again as many of the infrastructure changes Neelman mentions need to made probably won't be in effect yet. And while this week is one of the biggest winter weeks for travel the next 2 months are all very busy ones in many of the markets B6 serves, particularly the Northeast to Florida. This may not be over yet folks.

Cheers

LGA777

[Ari707]

I was on Flt 4008 the Ryan Air Charter to MCO on Thurnight / Friday morning....once we took off it was fine, it just took a whole long time to finally take off......

[Nonstop2AUH]

As has been proven by Ryanair (of Ireland), consumers will endure ALOT of inconvenience as long as they believe they have gotten the lowest possible fare. However, JetBlue is not a bare bones LCC in the mold of Ryanair or Southwest, and has been marketing itself as somewhat of a 'premium economy' airline. We have now learned that, beneath that image, there are serious infrastructure issues, i.e., maybe they have been able to cultivate the premium image while keeping fares low by skimping on such infrastructure, which they are now going to have to pay up for. They will emerge the better for having done so, but obviously having these added back of the house costs is going to affect their margins, unless they want to start making changes to the front of the house, e.g. charge for entertainment, put that row of seats back in, etc. In sum, the company is maturing and they need to decide what they want to be.