2 Southwest planes forced to turn around in Flight.

[Alex T]

WARWICK, R.I. -- Two Southwest Airlines flights left Baltimore Monday night bound for Rhode Island, but it was just the beginning of a back-and-forth odyssey for dozens of passengers.

http://www.turnto10.com/news/9227658/detail.html

This is interesting, Southwest and FAA's statement conflict each others.

Southwest Statement--One of the planes tried to land in Rhode Island, but when the approach failed, the pilot flew back to Baltimore.

The control tower at T.F. Green closes at midnight, and a spokeswoman from Southwest Airlines said the airline did request that it remain open.

"We made the request for both flights for the tower to stay open, and the local tower refused. Once they refused, we had no choice but to return back to Baltimore because we need the guidance of air traffic controllers to land in the weather conditions that were present," spokeswoman Whitney Eichinger said.

FAA Statement--A Federal Aviation Administration spokesman said based on control tower recordings, Southwest's version of events is "not true."

"Southwest made a decision to return to Baltimore after the pilot attempted to make a landing ... [and] missed his approach," spokesman Jim Peters said. "Based on conversations, it was not necessary for the tower to be open when that plane landed."


While I do trust Southwest Airlines, I do find it disturbing the pilot attempted to land at PVD without the guidance of the ATC there. If what FAA says is true, then WN may have just lied, about trying to land there and they had tried to do an attempted, but missed approach.

Anyone else know about this?

Alex

[Derf]

Ummm... This sounds like the tower shut down, There is NOTHING
dangerous about this. It is called an uncontrolled airport...kind of like
Farmingdale at night. It is always open, but at night, the ATC in the tower
goes home and aircraft keep separation and talk to each other on the
tower frequency. The say things that let other pilots know what they are
doing...like "Southwest 737 downwind for runway....." or "Southwest 737
on 3 mile final". This is not uncommon and it is not unsafe.

When I fly with a friend, we fly out of an uncontrolled airport called
Brookhaven. There is no control tower at all! It is uncontrolled 24/7 and
pilots with a LOT LESS TRAINING then Southwest's Cattle movers do just
fine.

[Alex T]

If I understand the weather played a huge part in it. Wasn't the weather horrendous up there all over the northeast? WN tried a landing, didn't do it, so they went around and flew back to BWI because they didn't feel safe doing it without the guidance of ATC

[Derf]

If I understand the weather played a huge part in it. Wasn't the weather horrendous up there all over the northeast? WN tried a landing, didn't do it, so they went around and flew back to BWI because they didn't feel safe doing it without the guidance of ATC

You do not need ATC for a bad weather landing, The tower is there to
make sure that aircraft do not get in an unsafe situation by flying too
close. If they turned around for weather, that is it. If there is bad weather
and the airport is small enough that the Tower closes at night, a 737
would never need them to begin with because at most, the only traffic
would be a couple of business jets unless something is very out of the
ordinary. ATC is needed when you have those little pipers and Cessna
that put, put around while business jets and 737 screaming around.
In bad weather a small plane will not fly. If a 737 aborts due to weather,
anyone in a piper or cessna in the same weather would need new shorts
and would take up sailing the next day.

Sounds to me like the 737 did not like the weather on approach or he
could not break out of the clouds/fog at minimums and probably turned
around.


I would love to hear what happened in the cockpit, but imagine it went
something like this...

Pilot: BOB, do you believe this ****?
FO: I wish we flew cargo....I need a friggin drink
Pilot: Now now Bob.....just because I have the throttles does not cut you
.........out of that 8 hours of bottle to throttle.
FO: Oh, Crap that was a good chop, 2000 Ft 800ft per min....on the
......glideslope.
Pilot: Glide slope??? What are you smoking??? it is inop because a
........Marine Harrier took it out the other day.
FO: That Was FRG.... and your making fun of me?
Pilot: Where are we at?
FO:Warick
Pilot: NO BOB, What is are altitude... I am too busy trying to find that
........titty bar across the street from the threshold!
FO: Sorry, 500
Pilot: 500 What
FO: 400 Feet at 700 feet fer minute
Pilot: You ashsloe, go around...... Where the hell were you, 400 ft???
........Were you waiting for the Ground Proximity Warning to go off?
FO: I would rather listen to him then you!
Pilot: EXPLITIVE
FO: EXPLITIVE
(Sound of seat belt unbuckling)
(Cockpit door opens and slams)
Pilot:Fcukin Icehole.....Screw this, I am going home
(Woop woop.....Pull Up.....Woop Woop Pull up)
Pilot:Shut the Fcuk up!
(Door opens)
FO: FU
Pilot: Not you ********

[Alex T]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Nice one Derf!!!

[Derf]

I believe the FAA...the pilots diverted due to weather and the chicks and
diks that serve the drinks and work the PA will tell the passengers
anything that keeps them quiet...but if you arrive at your destination and
then have to go back to where you started, you are going to be pissed.

The pilot probably told the Flight hotties that the tower left and would not
wait for them and they used it as the excuse. Just like 99% of delays are
weather (See the weather delay thread).

I have seen many bonehead moves but this sounds like everything went
right and the flight crew acted perfectly. The guy in the towers shift was
over and he left...if it was dangerous, the FAA would have people at the
Towers 24/7 just incase of a diversion. I would not feel any safer if they
made the guy stay (If the aircraft had radar)

[T-Bird76]

As usual there are always three sides to each story, "WN's the FAA's and the truth." It may very will be the case that WN's own operational procedures requires a manned tower in order to land and by the time they came around the tower would have been closed. I'll say one thing about WN from flying them so often. They generally go up in weather that others just cancel their flights. I've never felt unsafe and I'm generally happy to be where I am vs. stuck at the airport.

[N790SW]

i think it is a good thing that the WN pilots did this - because if there was a crash ( god forbid) WN pilots and WN its self would get flamed for flying into an airport with no ATC- it would be a nightmare. idk what any one else thinks but thts my 2 cents.

[Derf]

i think it is a good thing that the WN pilots did this - because if there was a crash ( god forbid) WN pilots and WN its self would get flamed for flying into an airport with no ATC- it would be a nightmare. idk what any one else thinks but thts my 2 cents.

They would only get flamed by people who know nothing about operating an aircraft. The days of the tower guiding you in went out with Joe Patroni!