Korean Freighter Just Flew Over My House

[Matt Molnar]

Old 742 + full takeoff thrust + only about 2000 feet up even though I live 6 miles due northeast of the end of 4R + 2:24am + KAL apparently not giving a **** about NIMBY laws and departing straight out over land = awesome

The fact that I was able to go online within 30 seconds of hearing/seeing this beast and finding out exactly what plane it was = a little bit insane

Here she is:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/KAL8258

[RDU-JFK]

Every once in awhile, in Brooklyn, I hear a low-flying freighter around 2 or 3 in the morning. Sure enough, I checked passur and after taking off from JFK sometimes they fly straight across Brooklyn (my neighborhood's Midwood).

[PhilDernerJr]

...departing straight out over land = awesome

LOL.

Every now and again I see a Kalitta 747 go over my hosue at like 4,000ft in Northern Queens, after departing straight out from EWR. I don't knwo why the super slow climb, but it's very cool and a very distinct sound that stands out in my town.

[USAF Pilot 07]

...departing straight out over land = awesome

LOL.

Every now and again I see a Kalitta 747 go over my hosue at like 4,000ft in Northern Queens, after departing straight out from EWR. I don't knwo why the super slow climb, but it's very cool and a very distinct sound that stands out in my town.

Could be to avoid LGA traffic, especially when LGA is using RWY13 for depatures.

[PhilDernerJr]

If anything it's the other way around....that path puts it DIRECTLY over 13 deps by a couple thousand feet, and at the same level when the LGA deps make the big turn and go abck out west.

[Tower Air]

What are the NIMBY Laws?

[USAF Pilot 07]

If anything it's the other way around....that path puts it DIRECTLY over 13 deps by a couple thousand feet, and at the same level when the LGA deps make the big turn and go abck out west.

Well if I recall correctly, the Flushing Climb, which LGA usually uses when using RWY13, has a turn right to 180 degrees right after takeoff, until about 2.5 DME LGA, and then a left to 040 degrees. This puts LGA departing planes well East of College Point, just east of the Throggs Neck Bridge before they are further vectored.

Looking at PASSUR, most outbound flights, on the Flushing Climb, are at or above 4,000' (most of the jets are at about 6,000) by the time they come out of the turn to 040; putting them usually just about due East of LGA. In fact, IIRC I think there is an altitude restriction somewhere in the Flushing Climb (although I don't remember where).

If the planes you are seeing departing EWR are at 4,000' over College Point, this all makes sense. This would put the departing EWR flights a little north of LGA, well above arriving LGA flights on RWY22, but still well below departing flights off of RWY13 using the Flushing Climb.

The departing LGA flights, and the EWR flight at 4,000' probably cross paths over the mouth of the Long Island Sound, just east of the Throggs Neck Bridge, and would be well more than 1,000' feet apart (which I believe is standard separation altitude).

Any higher, and the EWR flight would be too close to departing LGA flights, and any lower, too close to arriving LGA flights.

Just a theory, but probably makes the most sense, as this flightplan could not be used with 13 arrivals or 31 departures.

In any case, I don't think this type of path is used too often, and probably has to either be requested, or is only used when traffic patterns north of EWR are all kinds of messed up.

[Futterman]

Well if I recall correctly, the Flushing Climb, which LGA usually uses when using RWY13, has a turn right to 180 degrees right after takeoff, until about 2.5 DME LGA, and then a left to 040 degrees. This puts LGA departing planes well East of College Point, just east of the Throggs Neck Bridge before they are further vectored.

That's actually the Whitestone Climb. Flushing Climb is runway heading to LGA 2.5 DME, then left to 050. See http://www.airnav.com/depart?http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0511/00289LAGUARDIA.PDF.

Either way, the SIDs call for all departing LGA traffic -- off any runway -- to maintain 5,000 feet until receiving vectors. See http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0511/00289LAGUARDIA_C.PDF.

There doesn't seem to be a published NOA chart for an EWR departure heading out over towards LGA, and I don't know what Jepp has. What you said, though, USAF, sounds pretty good, but chances are it's just a straight-out type departure off the 04s where ATC vectors all the Kalitta 74s over the Derner VOR.


Brian

[PhilDernerJr]

USAF,

But it's jsut this one plane. The Kalitta. I've never seen any other plane do this.

The thign I'm tlaking about is its low altitude and slow climbout.

[cancidas]

even as far north as greenpoint you can hear the freighters at night, especially when i get up for work in the morning on a wx day when the 22s are active. then again, you can still hear the frequent CAPs over the area as well...

[USAF Pilot 07]

USAF,

But it's jsut this one plane. The Kalitta. I've never seen any other plane do this.

The thign I'm tlaking about is its low altitude and slow climbout.

You sure the planes you're seeing are outbound EWR aircraft, and not inbound JFK ones?

I know Kalitta flies into JFK a lot (not sure about EWR), maybe these are "ferry" flights between EWR and JFK.

If the only planes you see doing this are an occasional Kalitta, then that may very well be the case, and it would make sense why you're seeing them around 4,000' over College Point.

Other than that, I don't see why ATC would vector a 747 departing EWR over College Point, at only 4,000', especially during the daytime; unless there were some issues just north of the city (such as wx). In that case though, you'd probably see more than one aircraft on that departure route, so this is unlikely.

My guess is that it's an inbound JFK flight, whether it be an EWR ferry or not.

[PhilDernerJr]

Clark,

Yes, that's why I mentioned it, becuase it's special. I am positive it's EWR traffic. I forget the runway, but it's a straight-out departure, right over CP, I think to Boston, or to the Boston area before being vectored elsewhere to Iceland or some ****.

[USAF Pilot 07]

Interesting. Some PASSUR review may help shed some more light on why the planes have been vectored this way....

[DHG750R]

Guys , Kalitta flies out of EWR for the US Postal service . carrying mail to the troops . routing is EWR-LGG-BAH-KWI If they are using one of their many 747-100's , you can expect a slow and low climbout.

LGG = Liege , Belgum
BAH-= Bahrain ( home of the Navy's 7th fleet )
KWI = Kuwait City ( you know what's there )

Incidently , the initial altitude for the EWR departures headed to the east , thru LGA's airspace is also 5000

[Matt Molnar]

Does Kalitta ever fly directly to Baghdad? I remember hearing that they had gotten permission to do so.

[USAF Pilot 07]

Guys , Kalitta flies out of EWR for the US Postal service . carrying mail to the troops . routing is EWR-LGG-BAH-KWI If they are using one of their many 747-100's , you can expect a slow and low climbout.


Yea, but 4,000' over College Point after an EWR departure is abnormal.

And the 5,000' feet, from what I've seen and heard, is just a "fixed" ceiling. Most a/c are told to climb higher well before they reach 5,000 feet.